<p>Got quite the dilemma. Got into RISD, California College of the Arts, and The University of Texas at Arlington. Should i go to my dream school (RISD) and be 80k in debt, go to my dream city San Francisco (CCA) and be 40k in debt, or stay at home (UTA) and be in no debt? Let me know what you know about the programs and the possibilty of employment at each.</p>
<p>I love all three schools but im am placing UTA at the top because of the money factor. RISD has all the prestige, CCA has the better environment, and UTA grads constantly get work in a growing market, Dallas/Fort Worth. I would really love to move out of Texas and explore a new environment but the fact that I can stay here in Dallas and get a great career here without the trouble of debt is enticing.</p>
<p>I really question what RISD architecture is doing with sustainabilty and the lack of math or physics in their curriculum. CCA has a program really geared towards sustainable design as evident when they placed first in Architecture at the Solar Decathelon last year. I question the opportunities CCA offer since their graduation rate is around 30% withing 6 years. RISD’s is 90% within 6 years. UTA has a 33% graduation rate.</p>
<p>Another issue is whether i shoud follow the 5 year BArch or the 4 + 2 program. I would have 3 yrs left at RISD since im a transfer student, 3.5-4 yrs at CCA, and 2yrs at UTA plus 2yrs in grad school. I only have a week to send in my matriculation fee so please give me your two cents.</p>
<p>Should i reach for bigger or be humble and make a nice living at home?</p>
<p>I definitely understand your dilemma, gerrard. I had the same issue with Rice University and Cooper Union. The only issue for me was the cost of room and board. Instead, I’ll be near home in Texas and I’ll have little to no debt when I graduate. I don’t necessarily plan on staying Houston after I graduate. You should be able to start a career somewhere out of Texas. </p>
<p>I think it really depends on what you want. The prestige might not always be worth the cost of going to the school. The Dallas/Ft. Worth area is definitely growing, and it’s just going to keep getting bigger in the next few years. I think an emphasis on sustainable and environmentally-friendly design will become more important than ever, along with math and physics. 40k in debt might be feasible to pay off in a reasonable amount of time, but if I were you, I would stay away from piling up nearly 100k in student loans.</p>
<p>On the different programs: From my knowledge, B.Arch programs tend to be extremely intense and studio focused. Not that the 4 + 2 route is low key by any means, but that’s a lot of information to try to squeeze into 5 years. The B.Arch is really specialized, and you should be absolutely sure that you want to work in architecture when you graduate. A M.Arch program would give you the opportunity to change majors or enter into another field if you so desired.</p>
<p>Much as I love RISD (and I really, really do) – no school is worth taking on $80K of debt. In fact, I’m not really sure it’s worth taking on $40K of debt if you have a $0 alternative that can provide you with similar education/training. </p>
<p>Look very carefully at the UTA architecture program and ask some critical questions. If you feel that UTA will provide you with solid education/training, then enroll there and feel good about not having a boatload of crushing loans to pay off after you graduate.</p>
<p>Gerrard, I can’t disagree with your thinking but the other option is to go to UTA for your 4 year degree, get a job, and after a few years of experience (and some savings), go get your graduate degree at another school that will give you a different perspective. In terms of value, it is hard to beat the architecture school at UTA.</p>
<p>80k+ in debt is way too much for an architecture grad. You’ll always be behind in your bills, loan payments, etc. Architects, especially new grads, simply don’t make a lot of money.</p>
<p>Thanks for all the input. Believe it or not you guys are shaping my decision in a way. It’s always good to get many perspectives.</p>
<p>I do plan on studying architecture but more school equals more $$. I really want the BArch so that I can get in the field asap and return for a specialized MArch or maybe something in the arts.</p>
<p>UTA would be ok but more of the same. CCA really offers another experience in a city that I love. 40k would probably be more around 20-25k since my parents would provide support plus I have family in nearby San Jose. I would save on housing by traveling by train to San Francisco which would take anywhere from 1hr to 1 1/2 hrs depending on time. Does that seem feasible?</p>
<p>Commuting from S.J. to S.F. is not ideal. The train system there is not as efficient as in the east and it would take 1 hr to 1 1/2 hr to just do the train part. The train in S.F. lets out well below Market street and you need to take a bus or 2 to get where you would be going. Driving, if you missed the train, would be a nightmare going at commute time. Housing in the Bay area is very expensive even if you lived up near S.F.</p>
<p>B. Arch is the fastest way into the profession. If you have the accredited 5-year degree, you probably won’t need an M.Arch. An MBA would serve you much better. That’s a great combo for a big CM firm.</p>
<p>Commuting from SJ to SF wouldn’t actually be that bad. You wouldn’t have to take a bus or two; CCA is a few blocks away from the Caltrain 4th x King stop. Also, there is relatively cheap housing in SF and Berkeley if you decide to lease (650-800 a month). You just have to take the time to look for it. Housing in the BA is generally only expensive/harder to come across for families.</p>
<p>One thing to consider is when the CCA studios close. If the studios are open 24 hrs, then commuting wouldn’t be the best decision (unless you’re willing to sleep in the studio/crash at a friend’s pad).</p>
<p>*and when were trains on the east efficient haha</p>
<p>We can’t really speak well without knowing your current family situation - </p>
<p>If the 40k for CCA/80k for RISD isn’t going to be too much debt for your family, and you really love SF/RISD, i would say go for it.
It would give you something new instead of staying in the same place for your college life with many of the same people around you (a reason why i chose USC over Pratt, even though Pratt was cheaper and closer for me […15 minute drive away, haha…])</p>
<p>and yeah, NYC MTA is not efficient at all haha</p>
<p>NYCHADesign, i’m planning on going that route. Do you know how much that would cost me/the best time to go back for a MBA (right away vs after working for a few years)?</p>
<p>It all depends what you want to do. If you want to go into a traditional architectural practice and perform mainly design types of functions, then an MBA could wait. </p>
<p>If you want to do something other than traditional design with your arch degree right after school, then an MBA would be a better option right after or shortly after arch school. If you have a desire to go into development, construction management, capital project financing, or public-sector work, then an MBA would be a great benefit.</p>
<p>I wish I had an MBA in addition to my B.Arch. It’s definitely an asset where I am (a city authority). B.Arch + MBA is an unusual combination, but one that I can see as quite valuable in the situations mentioned above.</p>
<p>As for cost…well, its’ going to be expensive. But some employers do pay for it (but probably not arch firms). It all depends upon how much more debt you are willing to take on. Or is it worth liquidating assets accumulated after working for a few years. Tough decisions!</p>
<ol>
<li><p>If you have a B.Arch., there is NO need for a M.Arch. since you would just be repeating the same courses.</p></li>
<li><p>The top MBA programs usually want to see at least a few years of work experience from their applicants. And quite frankly, you will get a lot more out of the MBA program if you have worked (or are working, if you attend part-time) to put the theory into a practical context.</p></li>
<li><p>If you do go into architecture, development, or construction management, you will probably have to pay 100% for the MBA as these types of firms are the least likely to provide tuition assistance for a business degree.</p></li>
<li><p>I think you will miss an awful lot if you commute from San Jose to SF rather than living at or near the school. Architecture students have many, many late nights and tend to work odd hours.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>I’m an architect with an MBA. I did a 5-year BArch, worked for 3 years, got my license, and then went back nights to get my MBA. I can recommend that route. It’s great to get your architecture internship and licensing exam out of the way before you go for the MBA…otherwise there’s a strong tendency to put the exam off, and then never do it. I also recommend doing the MBA nights while working days. After architecture school, the MBA coursework was incredibly easy…I couldn’t believe that most kids went through undergrad putting in so few hours! No wonder they had time for all those EC’s and parties. Sitting in class taking notes, then doing an exam or a paper or two was a snap compared to hours/days/weeks in studio.</p>
<p>We have two young employees in our office who are also taking the daytime work/nightime MBA route. Neither of them are having much trouble managing the workload/courseload and also having a social life.</p>
<p>@ NYCHADesign, worried_mom and archmom: Thanks for all the information I might do the night school route too, but that’s still a while off. It’s nice to know my options though. Thanks again :)</p>
<p>I am still undecisive about my path. I have narrowed it down to RISD or UTA. My main issue with UTA is that it is going to take me 4 years plus the 2 in graduate school. I will be three years behind because i have to follow a course sequence and i dont know what i will have to spend for graduate school. With RISD I would only need 3 more years for the professional BArch. I could work immediately and pursue a graduate degree if my debt is not astronomical. The 80k in debt is accumulative of the three years not including the possible outside aid (work-study, scholarship, internship) i could recieve in the future and the 20k my family can provide for me without a doubt. Debt is not an issue for me, its being able to afford the payments in my first 5 years since graduation. What kind of salary could i expect with a BArch starting out? At worst if I do end up in 80k in debt i calculated that my monthly payments would be 1200 over 10 years which could be streched out to 20 years in necessary. I have till the 22nd to accept RISD offer so please some input.</p>
<p>My family situation: Parents are divorced and each make 50k a year. father remarried with 4 still living with him including me. mother has 2 kids. Because nobody plans to go to school except me they never saved up anything which makes me angry because they should have known that i had the potential to have a degree.</p>
<p>If i choose risd i would need to take out all the loans because i cant leave that debt on my parents. i would need to take out 20k in private loans but i have no credit so what kind of interest rates am i looking at? I personally know a retired architect who was the former president of HKS here in Dallas and we talk on a weekly basis. Would i be out of line to ask him if he could cosign the loans for me? If he did i would probably get the lowest interest rates possible since he is very wealthy. Must be to have a home in italy where he visits for a month every year. He gives me so much belief and he also knows my situation.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Going to school with less debt, especially since you can not rely on your parents is probably the best course. Remember, 50% of students do not graduate in the major they set out in. Better to be someplace where it costs you little to nothing to change.</p></li>
<li><p>You will be able to work when you graduate with your 4 year degree from UTA and better decide on a grad school that is strong in your interest area ie preservation vs sustanability. You will not know until you have gotten into the field what that is. Believe me, I went to work in the exact opposite area I thought I would until I had exposure in school.</p></li>
<li><p>You have support from a retired architect in Dallas who may be of help to you as you progress. He will not be able to provide that assistance for you in R.I. Even rick12 here on this forum can give you Texas input. That support can mean a lot especially when you look for work when you get out of school.</p></li>
<li><p>You will not make a lot of money as an architect to pay off large loans. If you go for the first 4 years debt free, then you only have grad school debt to worry about of 2-3 years depending on place you go. You may want to buy a house or get married in your future, both are very costly and you will be glad to not be paying off an undergrad education.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>What you should find out about:</p>
<p>The RISD grad program says it is 3 years. Is that still true if you have a pre-professional Bachelor’s? Ask them what classes could you take even in the summer to reduce those 3 years. Ask CCA the same thing? BTW, the grad tuition is higher at RISD than CCA. </p>
<p>Gerrard, you have to play the hand you’ve been dealt. You asked about starting salaries, and with a BArch you could expect to start somewhere around $42,000/year. Assuming about a 25% tax and SS burden (just a guess) you would be taking home $2,600/month, so subtract the $1,200 for the loan and then just figure how to pay for rent, car, insurance, food, etc. with the rest. Might be doable in Dallas, almost impossible in NY or SF.</p>
<p>Living at home and going to UTA is not the most glamorous college experience, but it is a very good school and you will be in probably the strongest architecture market in the country. The best portfolio I’ve ever seen coming out of school came from a UTA graduate who now is a partner in his own firm. He came over on a boat from Vietnam at 12, graduated from a Community College in Amarillo with a drafting degree, and went on to UTA for his undergraduate and graduate degrees.</p>
<p>Having an ex-HKS president as a neighbor is a great resource, don’t burn that relationship by trying to get him to co-sign your loan. Use him for advice on this and other issues. HKS has few East coast graduates, it is full of A&M, Oklahoma, UTA, and Texas Tech folks. Somehow they seem to have managed. </p>
I might do the night school route too, but that’s still a while off. It’s nice to know my options though. Thanks again :)</p>