Rising 10th - course rigor strategy for STEM/BME path

Parents Forum
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Hi all,

Looking for some guidance as we plan 10th grade courses for our daughter (Fairfax county schools, Northern VA).

She is a 9th grader interested in engineering, with growing interest in biomedical engineering. This year she is taking:

  • AP Human Geography

  • AP Computer Science A

  • Algebra 2 Honors

  • Biology Honors

  • English 9 Honors

  • French 1

She challenged herself with 2 APs as a freshman. Unfortunately, her grades are not that great so far. She has A’s in French, English, Biology and Health/PE, B’s in AP CS and Human geography and C’s in Algebra 2. We believe (her as well) that the C in Algebra does not reflect her true potential, she had perfect A’s when she took algebra 1 in 8th grade and took Geometry over the summer with A as well, her current teacher is just terrible.

For 10th grade, she is currently considering:

  • AP Precalculus

  • Chemistry Honors

  • English 10 Honors

  • French 2

  • History Honors (instead of AP)

  • Elective: deciding between Anatomy vs a STEM elective

Our questions:

  1. Rigor trajectory:
    How would colleges (including more selective STEM programs) view going from 2 APs in 9th grade to 1 AP in 10th? Or even no APs at all and just take Precalc HN?
    Is it better to prioritize higher grades in mostly honors vs adding more APs but risking more B’s or even C?

  2. STEM alignment:
    For a potential biomedical engineering path, would Anatomy be viewed as a meaningful and relevant elective, or is it better to prioritize something like engineering, CS, or research-oriented electives?

  3. Big picture:
    What is a reasonable AP/rigor progression for a student targeting schools like Virginia Tech, UVA, or potentially more selective STEM programs?

We’re trying to strike the right balance between rigor, GPA, and genuine interest early in high school.

Appreciate any perspectives.

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First, would it help to get a fine arts elective out of the way in 10th? Music or art instead of an additional science course could give some breathing room to reset her academics. Parents of older kids may differ but my understanding

is that schools want you to challenge yourself with rigor AND be successful. That she has B’s in 2 APs and a C in her honors math class indicates that she may have bitten off more than she can chew. What is her counselor saying? If this were my child, I’d be inclined to dial back to one AP. I hear what you’re saying about the bad teacher, but that caveat doesn’t show up on a transcript.

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Your child is accelerated in math…by two years. Math really is an area where a very strong foundation is very, very important. Algebra 2 is a different course than algebra 1. She needs to feel mastery of that material before she takes higher level courses. What do the school counselor and math department chair think? I’d start there.

The most important things:

  1. Make sure she is fulfilling the graduation requirements for your state and district.
  2. I’d make sure she has four years each of English, Math, Science (with three lab sciences), social studies, foreign language, and some arts elective.
  3. She needs to do her personal best. If that means taking honors courses instead of AP courses, so be it.
  4. Get a tutor for algebra 2…right now. This should help with the mastery of this subject matter, and perhaps improve her grade. Please help your child understand…she will have teachers she does not think are terrific in college too, even at elite colleges.

I also think it’s important to allow this student to do things that are not totally academic…enjoyable things for her. She is in 9th grade. She should also enjoy the rest of high school.

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High school kids do not need to load up on STEM classes to be competitive for engineering programs. There is no “major” in HS. So taking classes with the appropriate workload and challenge is more important than an extra anatomy or CS class Slow down!

I would have your D rely on her teachers and guidance counselor to get her appropriately scheduled. Getting a few B’s here and there is not a problem….accelerating and ending up with C’s will be frustrating for your kid.

What do her teachers say about next years schedule?

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Regardless of whether the difficulty in math is due to a bad teacher or other reasons, the actual concern is whether the student is well prepared for following math courses in high school and college. The minimal level of preparation that a high school C indicates suggests that the student needs significant catch up to attain A level performance in following math courses.

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I don’t think that a student with C’s in math should go on to take AP Precalculus. Furthermore, from what I’ve seen in looking at colleges’ AP credit policies, AP Precalculus is generally not very useful for getting college course credit anyway.

Classes such as anatomy and engineering should be taken if they are fun and interesting for the student. I don’t think such classes are pivotal for college admissions decisions. It is more important that the student does well in core classes, such as math, particularly for someone interested in STEM and engineering.

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To be blunt, higher grades. The way I would put it, though, is a little more substantive. She will get the most out of her education if she is reasonably challenging herself with proper preparation. A student capable of getting As who is getting Bs and Cs instead is doing something unreasonable and/or is not fully prepared. Sticking to reasonable challenges will also then be a more competitive profile for colleges, including because they will know she is well-prepared for the next classes in her sequences, and in general has a good habits when it comes to classwork.

Again to be blunt, there are very few HS classes which selective colleges view as important preparation for classes in a rigorous major. Like if it is a requirement for the major, they might not even give you credit and will require you to retake it in college anyway.

For engineering majors, the main exceptions are Calc, Calc-based Physics, and possibly AP Chemistry (although with Chem you might need a placement test). Other elective stuff she can take because she finds it interesting, fun, and so on. But she should make sure to be reasonably challenging herself in all the core areas as well (in addition to Math and Natural Science, the other three Cores are English, History/Social Science, and non-native Languages), which can be more important for selective engineering admissions sometimes than some people expect.

ETA: Just by way of example, here is the First Year Engineering Curriculum at Pitt, which has an excellent Bioengineering program:

If you compare to this list of AP credits available, the only things you can place out of with just AP scores are the (non-Honors) Calcs and Physics 174 (Mechanics), not even Physics 175 (E&M).

If you go into Bioengineering, here is what the rest of the four-year curriculum looks like:

You’ll note they are teaching a lot of biology but with their own special classes, which is not unusual for Bio (Bio can be taught with a lot of different focuses).

OK, so the preparation you actually need for all this is a year each of HS Physics, Chem, and Bio, and Pre-Calculus. And AP Calc and AP Physics C will allow you to place out of a few classes. But it is a short list, because they want to teach you most of the foundational stuff themselves.

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Saying this gently, it seems like she accelerated too quickly in 9th grade. Don’t worry about college at this point. Have her build good study habits in classes that are right for her level, whatever that level is. (And that level could be different by subject.)

I hesitate to recommend AP Precalc after struggling with Algebra 2. I get that the C might not reflect her true potential, but you and your D have to understand why she is not succeeding in that class. Does she not understand concepts introduced early in the year and things are now building on that? How are her study habits? Has she been going to talk with the teacher about things she doesn’t understand, homework help, how to study for the test, etc? Even if the teacher is ‘terrible’, I expect there are students getting A’s in that class. As others have said, this will not be her last bad teacher…she has to learn how to build a good relationship with every teacher she has/will have (and find a way to learn the class material.)

For electives, she should take what she wants (including something not on this list, like photography to take one example.) However, if she does take anatomy, it does not replace a core science, so she still needs at least four other science classes including bio/chem/physics.

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This post is spot on. Said everything I would have. Keep in mind their career goals/interests could change over the next few years so emphasizing one area too heavily is ill advised. Let her pursue what she wants and not overload with courses that will be too demanding at this point as that could sabotage her grade point average and her motivation.

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This is an excellent post. OP– share this with your D! Do NOT accelerate in math beyond “mastery”. The grade doesn’t matter- what matters is truly understanding the concept, being able to apply it appropriately, recognizing the same problem again and again even when it presents using different parameters.

And colleges want to see the Big 3- bio, chem and physics, with labs. Whether a kid is applying for BME or at a competitive college for Art History or Philosophy- the Big 3 is where it’s at. Anatomy is great if your kid is interested in it but nothing will replace the core sciences. With labs.

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I agree that the priority has to be getting a solid foundation in math and not the AP race. Having Cs in Alg 2, regardless of the reason, is a strong indicator not to do AP pre calc and make sure that the foundation is very strong. BME, actually all engineering disciplines, rely very heavily on math. And for a STEM applicant, they will need to have 2 or more college calc classes in college.

To be blunt, selective STEM programs want rigor and top grades. But, I wouldn’t worry about college now. Your child is in their first year of HS. She needs to figure out the right level and balance for her.

FWIW, my D’s HS didn’t allow APs freshman year, only 1 in 10th and then max of 3 in 11th and 12th. As others have said the most important thing is to have 4 years in the core subject areas - math, science, English, history, and foreign language. If she can get to AP calc in 12th grade, fabulous. Also be sure there is a year of bio, chem and physics and that she takes chem or physics at the AP level if wanting to do engineering.

Electives should be strictly up to your child and her interests. Mine (a now engineer) took orchestra for her elective in 9th and 10th.

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Good morning everyone,

thank you all for your insightful replies. Really appreciate your time to answer.

Regarding the math issue: I understand (and she understands also) that a) Math is a critical piece both for admissions purposes and as the foundation for the future engineering-oriented classes, and b) that might have challenged herself more than she should have. She already started working with a math tutor.

However, right now, having taken Algebra 1, Geometry and Algebra 2 already, her school doesn’t offer anything for 10th grade other than AP Precalculus AB or BC. Her only other option would be AP Statistics, AP Calculus (which I believe would be even harder) or a course named “Algebra Functions Data Analysis” which only has Algebra 1 prerequisite (which I believe would be a downgrade and wouldn’t look good at all in her transcript). There are some other classes like Trigonometry, Probability/Statistics, Discrete Math and Data Science but all these are offered for 11th/12th grade. So I guess our hands are tied..?

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Statistics is a very useful, mostly fun class which (if her teachers agree) should not be as much of a stretch as moving ahead with calculus before she’s ready. It does not need to be AP. If the tutor is helping her shore up a weak foundation, then she can do pre-calc junior year, calc senior year, and will be well prepared for college!

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Too bad there is not regular pre-calc. I would take AP pre-calc then, I don’t think she should have a year in between algebra 2 and AP pre-calc, because she must take pre-calc in high school and ideally calc.

I’m glad she is working with a math tutor, and would continue to reinforce algebra 2 concepts thru the summer if she is amenable to that. Something as simple as doing some Khan Academy problems.

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I like the idea of statistics. I personally think everyone should take a statistics course at some point in their life. Maybe also a Finance or financial management course. but I digress.

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To clarify, only AP statistics is offered at 10th grade. The class “Probability/Statistics” is only offered at 11th grade. So it looks like its either AP Precalc AB or AP statistics.

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This should be a call made by her math teacher with help from the guidance counselor. They know how much of a stretch the AP stats curriculum will be for her, keeping in mind the teacher and the other students who will be in the class…..

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Would this perhaps be a better choice than precalculus? @Mwfan1921

I also would not suggest moving on to precalculus at this point.

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It sounds like trig is only offered for 11th and 12th graders at OP’s D’s HS. The current algebra 2 class likely has some trig in it, then students move on to pre-calc, of which AP Pre-calc is the only choice unfortunately. Because that is the only pre-calc choice, my sense is that this HS teaches that class the same as they did before they signed up to offer CB’s AP Pre-calc course. Short of retaking Algebra 2, which I don’t think a C warrants, OP’s D should move on to pre-calc. Of course they should also be chatting with the math teachers/dept head and college counselor, and also making sure they get really comfortable with algebra 2 concepts, hopefully thru the summer.

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You need to have strength - not necessarily rigor - but strength in -

English - 4 years

Math - 4 years - you are doing the 11th grade class in 9th

Lab Science - 3 years

Foreign Language - 3 years helps

Social Science - 3 years

You don’t need things like CS or other things. You need the core classes. They are fine. But you also need to not worry about college - plans change and most don’t end up in the most selective anyway - and the C in Algebra 2 is a big red flag. Math builds - so whether it’s tutoring, repeating. Engineering is math - and this doesn’t bode well for the future even at a non selective college - as engineering is hard. So focus on being in the right courses, not the most rigorous. Some get into great engineering schools with pre-calc.

Top colleges aren’t necessarily top engineering colleges and the truth is, top engineering colleges blend. You want ABET accreditation. When I say blend, short of a few schools, I’m not sure where you go matters. We had a Ga Tech parent on here whose student couldn’t find a job for nearly a year out of Ga Tech - and finally got a contract job. BME is on the lower paid end of engineering and tough to get gigs.

There’s nearly 200 schools that are accredited.

If you look at Va Tech class of 24 - since you mentioned Va Tech, 33% of Biomedical Eng grads were employed, 45% in school, and 19% still seeking employment. This was 6 months after graduation. They did not give a Knowledge rate or salary (said not enough data). Knowledge rate means what % of students reported.

But look at a very good school like UMN - their average BME salary was $71K (vs. over $79K for the College of Science and Engineering). This is for 2023 with 94.6% reporting success with only 1.4% still seeking.

Purdue in 2024 showed 45% and 47% continuing education. $73,466 was the salary - as reported by 32. Since 45 claimed employment, that means 13 didn’t report the salary. One doesn’t know but I’d presume it’s less.

Nonetheless, with a C in math, a “selective” school might be out or certainly will be harder.

But does it matter?

ASU has the same average salary as UMN with 72% reporting average salary. U Arizona doesn’t break out by major but the average engineering salary is higher.

Kansas State (low count - 6) shows over $76K average salary for BME.

Rose Hulman is ranked #1 for non-PhD schools - outstanding outcomes - it’s BMEs showed 97% success - at a bit lower salary - $68.3K but that might be based on location (Indy pays less than Boston, etc.)

Truth is, you might be off the “rigorous” or UVA type already (Va Tech isn’t in a selectivity class of UVA although it’s very selective).

But a few things:

  1. With a C in math, your student may find changed interests or retake the class. Move on - absolutely not.

  2. There’s near 200 BME schools out there, and all likely will give a good education and salaries likely won’t be that far off. Prestige is to sell magazines - companies don’t necessarily glom onto that, short of a few schools.

The issue here - you set up a desire and forced the student through it ahead of their abilities. Big mistake. So get the student on the right path.

If it’s ASU, Kansas State, Miami of Ohio, or Nevada Reno instead of UVA, they can be every bit as successful.

One last thing - kids like to blame things when the grade isn’t an A. Welcome to the real world. Not all teachers work for all kids - but has the student asked for tutoring with the teacher after hours, sought tutoring privately, studying with a friend, etc. It’s more likely they were put in too advanced a class for their needs.

Struggling in 9th grade - I wouldn’t expect differently going forward - it’s clear the work is a bit beyond the student’s particular strengths.

They’ll be four years of bad teachers in hs and another four in college (with less hand holding) - so put the “blame” to rest now.

Good luck.