Two of the schools that my son is considering are high on Payscale’s ROI list, SDSMT and Missouri S&T. We are out of state, and I’m not sure either are “affordable” without a fair amount of debt, particularly for Missouri, though we won’t know the final numbers until March.
Even though it doesn’t appear affordable right now, we’re going to let our son go visit Missouri since he really wants to go. We just need to pay for flight and they will cover hotel and meals for the three day visit.
Would a school like this be worth 20-30K worth of debt? Not that we’d do that, but I am curious.
These two schools are higher on the ROI list than all of the state schools to which my son applied.
Or is ROI not such an important statistic when considering college costs/debt?
Unless those ROI numbers are by major, they are confounded by the mix of majors at each school. SD Mines and MO S&T are both engineering-heavy schools, so their ROI numbers will be higher than for schools with a mix of majors that includes fewer engineering majors and more biology (etc.) majors, even if the engineering majors have similar job prospects coming from each school.
$25,000 debt appears to be typical federal direct loan amount debt.
It’s all conjecture at this point since my son’s not been admitted to any state school, but just wondering about the wisdom of attending either of these schools over higher ranked schools such as UCSD or UCI. Might it depend on major?
Payscale’s numbers are self reported. So take with a heaping spoonful of salt. Sort of like my driver’s license where my height is correct but my weight is wishful thinking.
I would not make a college decision based on bad data.
Nor would I be paying for a plane ticket for a college I may not be able to afford if UCSD (your backyard, as I recall) is likely to come through with an affordable option.
Missouri M&T is a fine school for engineering- particularly mechanical where I think it is absolutely a hidden gem of a university. For someone instate comparing Missouri to taking on debt to attend MIT-well, that’s a decision. In your case, I’d be inclined to wait to see what transpires with the money. I know less about SD so will wait for a more experienced poster to weigh in.
The data in Payscale is filled with inaccuracies. Comparing apples to kiwi fruit. Of course a college which focuses on engineers is going to have a higher ROI than a college with a big cohort of visual artists, poets, dancers, etc. But what if YOUR son decides he’s not going to become a mechanical engineer? He doesn’t get a tuition discount because he decides to pursue his artistic interests after he graduates…
Oh? So Missouri students would tend to work in the midwest, then?
Honestly, I can’t tell you where we are at in any school, finances, majors, etc. My son is currently taking Calc I, Java and Animation II at the local college and loving all his classes (so far-only first week). He just adores animation. Yet, he is excited to visit Missouri. And most the the acceptances/rejections haven’t come in. He’s admitted to six of his safeties but don’t know about cost for most of them.
It might be possible that we will have some help with college costs from family, but that is a conversation that hasn’t happened.
Just was pondering at the most basic level if it would be worth the debt should my son really like his visit to Missouri and want to attend, and it turns out to be much more than we have. There’s something to be said for my son’s liking a school and wanting to attend (should he feel that way after he visits) since he’s been so blase’ about the whole process thus far.
A new semester with great classes has brought fresh air under my son’s wings.
Good points, Blossom. That’s why I posted here. I wanted to know just how accurate and helpful Payscale’s ROI charts are. I’ll mull this over some more and talk with my dh. Right now, my son’s applied for several scholarships and of course federal aid hasn’t come in, so there’s no way of knowing what the final cost will be. I was actually going to talk with the contact person and ask some questions.
I think we were just so happy that our son actually was excited about something. He can be a real Eyeore, so when he actually cared enough about this visit, we thought it might be worth the money just to give him some experience and independence. Because of his diabetes, he’s not flown by himself because it was always a hassle for him. But he did fly with his robotics team last spring without us, and all went well, so that gave him the confidence to deal with airport security and his pump.
Missouri students work all over. What in my post suggested otherwise? My point was that if you are INSTATE for Missouri and are comparing it to taking on debt to one of the big three or four engineering programs in the world- well, that’s a discussion. To take on debt for the maybe/sorta/kinda interest in engineering your son seems to be experiencing for a program which flies under the radar in the California animation community (just to pick a random example of something your son may want to do after graduation) seems like a discussion that needs to take place AFTER the acceptances are on the table and without regard to payscales incomplete and somewhat self-selected data. Your son’s ROI is NOT going to look like what you see on Payscale.
Sorry-I was responding to ucbalumnus when he said, “Recruiting for engineering will tend to have a higher representation of local and regional employers.”
And yes, what you’re saying is what my son and I originally thought: don’t visit anywhere until everything is on the table and we can see what’s affordable.
And yep, his heart may ultimately lie in game design/animation/cs.
The strongest people (90th percentile) from any major tend to do well financially in later life. However, there is substantial variation by major for the median and weakest (10th percentile). But then that may be because some majors are rigorous enough that the weakest change out of the majors while still in college, resulting in a sort of selection effect when viewed from post-graduation job and career prospects.
I think ROI is one of the stupidest ways to measure a school you can come up with. An engineering major in the midwest is likely to get a job where salaries are lower, but also the cost of living is much lower than on the coasts. The fact that many will stay local is going to bring down the averages at those schools. Presumably if they look where salaries are higher they’ll get a higher salary.
A econ major from Harvard who goes into IB is going to make more than the religion major who becomes a minister. My son was a comp sci major at CMU. They had a big graphic they showed us of where kids had gone and how much they were making. There was one outlier - the kid who desparately wanted to go back to his small town in Idaho. He was teaching in a high school and making a pittance compared to most of the other grads of his class.
“federal aid hasn’t come in, so there’s no way of knowing what the final cost will be.” - My understanding is that most schools now have NPC (Net Price Calculators) that make it easier to predict than when I did college research 5 - 10 years ago.
I meant that scholarships for which he applied are unknown. I do know that our federal aid (Pell Grant) seems to come in around $2000. But yes, with just the current scholarship and the Pell Grant, it’s unaffordable without sizable loans.
I think it’s really hard to assume that if you go to a school in the Midwest that you would get a job there. The reason why a MS&T would have more jobs accepted in the Midwest is because students want to stay there. I think they have recruiters from all over and jobs all over the country but know that most students want to stay in that area.
My S went to school in Michigan and his first job was in Texas. A small town in Texas. He had a girlfriend in the Midwest and was not happy in an area where he was not from and had no friends. He was offered a long term traveling assignment that he took and now his and the gf have relocated to Pittsburgh. They are happy to be driving distance from family.
My D went to school in Eastern PA and has a job in the town she went to school in. Her last two choices were between PA and MI. Because of a bf she decided to stay where she went to school. Bf is going to be graduating from grad school soon and I have no idea where they will end up but I think bf wants to stay on the east coast because that’s where his family is.
What I’m trying to say that you can get a job pretty much wherever you want to be, although many graduates want to be in the area they went to school. Recruiters know that but it doesn’t mean that is the only option. MS&T and SDSMT are schools that HR managers know and respect. They are well known within the engineering community. My S went to a similar small engineering school and it is well known in the Midwest and around the country. You don’t have to go to Caltech or MIT or another highly ranked school to be nationally known.
Yes, I agree. It’s only that most schools have a larger portion of students from the region (that’s just as true of Harvard as it is of a midwest school) and since many students want to stay put, and another set of students ends up liking the college location, the jobs students take (especially that first one) will tend to skew to the region the college is located in.
Thanks for clarifying. Yes, I see that as a possibility for my oldest son who is at school across the country in Boston. So far, he has worked each summer in Boston, and he and his girlfriend seem likely to stay there after they graduate, at least for a while. (Much to my sadness since I miss him/them)
Still cogitating the fly-in, but likely we won’t do it. I spoke to someone there at length yesterday and that was helpful. My son needs a new computer to run the animation software on, so we might take that $350 and spend it on that and wait until all rejections, acceptances and f. aid packages are in before deciding if he needs to visit.
I think he actually would really like Missouri based on what we know, but he may ultimately not end up in engineering.
So hard to be young and have multiple interests these days. Interesting that cost might dictate whether he goes into engineering, game design/animation, or industrial design.