^^ Again, do we have sources for the above? There is so much misinformation, political posturing and even hysteria regarding this issue – so that when we’re sharing information, I think it behooves us all to ask, where is this information from? Is it a credible source? has it been confirmed?
To return to Europe, there have been instances of “migrants/refugees” who were actually jihadis. Bulgaria arrested 5 men carrying ISIS propaganda in late August - which is verified - and there have been other unverified reports. I expect that this will become a story later. And I further expect that the story will become or reveal the way extremists oppress moderate Muslims - and violence within that community - as well as terrorism against the West.
It’s only with residence that crime among immigrants rise. Assimilation is not the same thing.
People who have no history of literacy in any language and do not speak either of the predominant languages in a culture have all sorts of problems. This is why I CHOOSE to spend and have spent tens of thousands of hours helping people whom I don’t know, most of whom are illegal immigrants to learn to read. Those people are much more likely to be poor. They are much more likely to be unhealthy. They are also much, much more likely to be victimized by others in every way possible. I hate that. I can’t in good conscience not help make that better. It used to be the case IN MY AREA (same area as the NY Times article) that the people coming across were people who spoke Spanish and understood the concepts of literacy. That is changing and has changed in the last decade or so. Unfortunately, teaching adults the concepts of literacy is a Herculean, overwhelming, unlikely to succeed task. I know that because I have tried it and am involved in the community of professionals who try to do that. They will not be literate in English or Spanish at the first generation. The first generation is unable to impart the required knowledge to their children, so they are not stepping onto the ladder of assimilation at the second generation, either. At the third generation, there is some movement, but certainly not to the middle class and self-sufficiency. And you know what? That stinks for them and they know it. Many of those immigrants will tell you straight out that they don’t want to come here but felt that they had no choice. That’s because powerful forces arrayed against them have made sure that they have no choice. These are smart, good, decent people. It is wrong that their own countries, who have the knowledge, the culture and the ability to help them have chosen not to. It is not just wrong, it is an outrage. The children of the immigrants understand their parents’ struggles, they know their resentment and anger, and live with their own feelings. I support assimilation. I work very hard to help people assimilate. But there are some people whose histories and cultures and language are so vastly different that they can’t reasonably be assimilated in a timeframe that would make coming across the border the better choice FOR THEM. It’s not kind or compassionate to support illegal immigration without regard to the best interests of the people immigrating. Or it’s racist to assume that our culture is better/superior/more worthy than theirs. It isn’t.
As far as the Mexican government, you can do some research yourself. You can start with the Mexican government, because it’s not a secret. I can’t even imagine why you are blowing this smoke and acting as if this is some sort of controversial, incendiary statement. It’s not.
Yes credible sources as I have been involved in meetings as to why or why they are not coming. Exit interviews from illegals confirm the payment to the drug lords.
@zoosermom, this actually is nothing new in US history.
Illiterate impoverished Irish who only spoke Gaelic.
Illiterate impoverished Italians who only spoke Sicilian (which is pretty different from written Italian).
The US managed to absorb them all, and more than a few of them reached the middle class by the 3rd generation.
If anything keeps this newest wave of immigrants from doing so, it would be the increasing gap between rich and poor in this country.
Zooser is right about two important circumstances regarding illegal immigration from Mexico.
- Significant numbers of Mexican immigrants in recent years are in fact native Americans, from ethnic groups in Mexico who speak little or no Spanish and certainly no English. These are kids from places like Chiapas, where the Indian population has been marginalized for ages. They are certainly not from the tourist areas of Acapulco or Quintana Roo.
- Have you visited a Mexican Consulate in the U.S. lately? There are any number of pamphlets and other informational aids provided by the government of Mexico that describe how immigrants, legal or not, can receive U.S. benefits and other assistance. Right or wrong, it is readily available.
"… this actually is nothing new in US history.
Illiterate impoverished Irish who only spoke Gaelic.
Illiterate impoverished Italians who only spoke Sicilian (which is pretty different from written Italian).
The US managed to absorb them all, and more than a few of them reached the middle class by the 3rd generation."
Yes, when all that was needed to start a life in this country and feed your family was a strong back and a willingness to accept any of the most difficult and unwanted jobs, until you could use the political system to begin to demand a share of the spoils, a la William Marcy Tweed. This is not the case in the modern day.
The Age of Industrialism has been over for about 80 years. Those jobs and processes are gone. The world, and of course the U.S.A. is in a technological age where worker skills are critically important. Can the U.S. absorb millions of unskilled persons? Is it just to do so when so many of our own low skilled or unskilled people are apparently trapped in the group of limited income people?
When I lived in Maryland, every time I went to Home Depot there would be a dozen or more hopeful Hispanic men, waiting for a possible day job at a construction site. They would hang out there all day! It reminded me of what I heard about the Sicilian community in NYC a hundred years or so ago, where some local capo would show up on horseback and choose from the waiting men who would work that day.
I don’t really know if its harder or easier to assimilate now, but I think the conditions and social services are better.
There was a canal built in New Orleans long ago, and at first, it was being built by slaves. Too many of them were injured and died because of the horrible conditions, they were someone’s property and therefore, valuable. It ended up being built by Irish immigrants instead and it’s estimated that 20,000 - 30,000 of them died to build that canal! It’s not in use anymore. We wouldn’t tolerate those sorts of conditions for anyone anymore (although I wonder about the soccer stadiums being built for the World Cup in Qatar).
So yes, if you “have a strong back” you could get ahead, but you’d have to be damn lucky too.
There was a map published in the NY Times yesterday or the day before showing where people in various states came from (that state, the NE, SW, Midwest or other countries). California had by far the highest number of people from other countries, a large percentage.
We are dealing with a drought and severe water shortages, high housing costs, a need for more electricity that threatens to ruin environmentally sensitive land, traffic nightmares, farmland being eaten up for development.
These weren’t problems back in the 1800’s. The country back then could absorb more people (although I’m sure the Native American tribes would disagree).
Fascinating piece on why Germans are much more welcoming of refugees now than other big Western countries:
http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-09-09/why-germany-welcomes-refugees
The press in the U.S.A. is not accurately reporting events in Europe. The U.S. media demonstrates that it is unaware or is not interested in the fact that this recent migration is unique. Obviously most of these folks are fleeing from war (ISIS and Assad’s Syria), but these are not the dregs of Syrian society. Much of the refugee group are educated and the middle east equivalent of middle class. I would also bet that many are Christians, since that group is a particular target of ISIS. Yes, the photos of the recent migrants are quite sad. But where was the world’s outrage when Assad poisoned his own citizens and rendered their homes into rubble?
All that said, Europe and the world better find a solution to the misery that is causing these folks to flee, because the problem isn’t going away anytime soon. Juncker’s plan is so lame. I can admire his morality, but this problem will not be solved by a sermon. Especially when most of the Congregation rejects the objective. Hungary is building a barbed wire fence. Anonymous ships from Greece are sabotaging or attacking refugee rafts.
Not to mention that Syria (along with Iraq and Lebanon) was one of the more cosmopolitan and educated countries in the Arab world.
^^Yeah. Remember that Basar Assad himself was educated and trained in England for dentistry.
Actually, Bashar Assad is an ophthalmologist. Which completely blows my mind.
If these Syrian refugees are so educated & desirable, then the Gulf states should be keen to take some. The Gulf states lack skilled nationals and have to bring in Westerners as guest workers to keep their countries running.
@GMTplus7, Westerners have the advantage of not speaking the local language (and thus can’t really incite the natives) and not upsetting the religious balance of those states. Several of them have Sunni rulers ruling over sizeable Shiite populations, I believe.
GMT, you know the answer to that question. The Gulf States are ruled by elites with a long history of excluding foreigners from full participation in civil society. You can work in Saudi land, Qatar, Abu Dahb etc. but you won’t have the same rights as the native population. Just ask any Palestinian.
Now that I think about it, I think there are similarities to the arguments of European opponents of migration and the cause of the Boers in their fight against the British in South Africa. Increasing numbers of english-speakers began to migrate to the region. The Dutch Boers were fearful of eventually being outnumbered by the British and particularly feared anglo-dominated cultural and political policies. The Hungarian claims today aren’t exactly the same, but the xenophobia is there nevertheless.
Four million refuges were taken in by Jordan, Lebanon, and Turkey in the last four years. For small countires like Jordan and Lebanon, the number represents a good fraction of their population. The UN is cutting the aids to those countries to feed refuges. We shouldn’t be surprised at the migrants “crisis” It was going to happen sooner or later.
In somewaht related matter, ISIS is supposedly stronger than we were made aware of,
Hungary is not the wealthiest or most stable of countries on its own, and has issues with its Roma minority. “I can’t do for you what I can’t do for myself” is a pretty fair response. But, you know, ultimately, fear of chaos, destabilization, etc. are reasonable concerns and not xenophobia. This situation is a genuine mess for most of the world and there are actually no good answers, it’s just a question of which combination of bad answers will minimize future problems (but not eliminate it).