Ross (Michigan) vs Mcdonough (Georgetown)

albina23 · March 31, 2012, 9:51am

I am an international student and have been admitted to both UMich and Georgetown (MSB). I am definite that I want to study business, but I haven’t yet decided which field to choose: I am thinking of maybe Social Entrepreneurship, Finance, Management, Marketing, International Business, so right now I have a hard time choosing between two universities. Plus I really want to double major in IR and Business.

I cannot travel to these universities and see where I fit best.
I would need some time to experiment to find out what I like best.

What I have so far:

UMich
Pros:

One of the best b-programs in States
Well-known university everywhere (has higher ranking than GT sometimes)
Diverse student body
Lots of opportunities for Ross students
High starting salary (60-65k) and great job placement

Cons:

I am not yet admitted to Ross (risky) - how much actually, if you work hard 1 year?
Huge university -> high acceptance rate -> not so smart students in general?
Not a big fan of football and Greek life
Ann Arbor is only a college town (boring to live for 4 years?)

Georgetown
Pros:

A well-known university world-wide, has a great reputation and prestige
Hard to get into -> Smart students -> academic challenge
DC ( I have lived there for a year as an exchange student, so not that much exciting)
High starting salary (60-65k) and good job placement
A possibility to get FA

Cons:

Business program is not the best (how come it’s not in top 10??)
I’ve heard that there’s not much diversity in the student body
Losing sense of a college life
+5k more expensiveSo these comments are based only on what I’ve read and heard. I haven’t visited any of these universities, so any comments would be greatly appreciated.

I have also been admitted to USC (Marshall), UVA, C of William and Mary, Emory (both Oxford and Emory Colleges), UNC, but thinking that GT and UMich are better (not so sure either)

What would you advise to choose and why?

goldenboy8784 · March 31, 2012, 1:21pm

Woah woah, lots of things to process here at once. You should keep Emory and UVA in your decision making process first of all. If you haven’t been preadmitted into Ross, then you should decide based on fit between Michigan and UVA since both their business schools are equally highly regarded. Emory has a great liberal arts reputation and its business school shouldn’t be discounted either.

Your concerns for Georgetown are unfounded. It is an extremely diverse and few if any schools can claim the same kind of geographic diversity amongst the undergraduate student body as Georgetown. M Street is one of the most iconic locations in the United States and the quality of food and shopping there far surpasses what Ann Arbor offers though the latter is more of a college town. As far as recruiting goes, Georgetown is every bit as good as Ross and UVA if not a tad bit better. It’s got a very strong alumni network and the highest prestige amongst the East Coast of the bunch.

Obviously you should consider finances in your decision making process.

stewta4 · March 31, 2012, 1:48pm

First, I’d like to address your cons with Michigan.
1) Freshman students applying to Ross have a 37% acceptance rate. If you are truly focused on business and work hard your freshman year, you shouldn’t have too much trouble, especially considering that you were accepted to Georgetown and are worried about MI undergrads being not smart enough. The majority of the people denied were people who Michigan was the hardest school they got into and many people also just apply without being focused on business because they think they can make a lot of money.
2) You are correct, Michigan does have much higher acceptance rates and therefore the student body in general will be less intellectual. However, less intellectual doesn’t mean stupid and/or lazy. Students still have to be relatively smart and hardworking to make it into Michigan. And, there will still be a ton of brilliant students as well. You can always make a big school smaller by the people you befriend, not to mention those eventually admitted to Ross (your classmates) would be towards the smarter end of the spectrum. Regardless, no matter where you go to college there will be people smarter than you and dumber than you, this shouldn’t affect your overall experience, which results from what YOU put into it.
3) The Greek life thing shouldn’t matter. I think only 18% participate in Greek life. It’s there if you want it, but if you don’t it’s not overpowering like some universities. Not to mention, not all frats and sororities are stereotypical (some are very intellectual). I’m also not interested in greek life, at all, but I’m not worried about it. With respect to football, many kids aren’t fans before they come, but then turn into huge fans because of the community bonding experience. Once again, if you actually attended and still didn’t feel the school spirit, you could probably mostly avoid it, although this would be more challenging than with Greek life. But hey, football season only lasts one semester.
4) I wouldn’t think that Ann Arbor would be boring for four years. Especially with such a large and diverse student body. Ann Arbor isn’t as small as you think, tons of restaurants, bars and shopping. Not to mention, any place you live and your happiness there depends on the people you associate with. With a huge student body (much bigger than Georgetown) and plenty of diversity, you shouldn’t be bored.

Watch out for @goldenboy he consistently hates on Michigan lol. With respect to Georgetown’s geographic diversity: it is better than Michigan’s, but that is probably the least important type of diversity. The most important type of diversity is diversity of thought and experiences; Michigan would beat Georgetown in both of these respects.

rjkofnovi · March 31, 2012, 2:15pm

albina23: Please ignore goldenboy8784. He is a well known Michigan hater on these boards.

rjkofnovi · March 31, 2012, 2:17pm

“M Street is one of the most iconic locations in the United States…”

Absolutely ridiculous and overstated. Once again goldenboy, your bias is showing.

Alexandre · April 1, 2012, 11:09am

albina is quite right in narrowing the choice to Michigan and Georgetown. UVa and Emory are excellent, but unfortunately, they do not have the international presence or reputation that is enjoyed by Michigan or Georgetown. Should he/she wish to move back home after graduation, the Michigan/Georgetown name will go a long way. Furthermore, I do not think Charlottesville or Atlanta are great places for international students to live in.

Some things that need to be made clear.

<ol>
<li>Georgetown is not more intellectual than Michigan. If anything, it is the other way around. Michigan is one of the most intellectual communities on the plannet. I can only think of a handful of colleges that are more intellectual and Georgetown is not one of them.</li>
<li>Georgetown is more selective than Michigan, but its student body is not stronger. According to the latest class statistics, Georgetown’s mid 50% SAT range was 1300-1500 while Michigan’s was 1250-1450. 50 points is negligible, especially when you consider the admissions philosophies of top private universities vs top public universities, the application approach/strategy of the majority of students enrolled at top private universities vs top public universities and the score reporting method at top private universities (super scoring) vs top public universities (no super scoring).</li>
<li>Ann Arbor is not boring, it is in fact considered one of the coolest colleges towns in the US. Georgetown is also ideally located of course, but I cannot think of a better place to spend one’s undergraduate years than in Ann Arbor</li>
<li>I would not worry too much about business school rankings. Ross may be ranked slightly better than McDonough, but when it comes to professional placement, both schools rock!</li>
<li>Georgetown and Michigan are both diverse in their own way. First of all, the concept of “geographic diversity” is completely bogus. At Most elite universities, 50%-75% of the student population will come from within a 500 mile radius. Whether that includes other states or not does not matter. Natives of Northwestern Ohio are not going to be dramatically different from natives of Southeastern Michigan! Those students still come from the same region. At Michigan, 70% come from the Midwest, but 20% come from the Tristate area (PA, NY and NJ), California and Texas. 6% come from overseas. At Georgetown, 50% come from the East Coast while 10% are international. Although Georgetown is Jesuit, only 40% of the students consider themselves devout Catholics. As such, the university is religiously diverse. </li>
</ol>

My family is staunchly Catholic. I attended Georgetown Preparatory School in Rockville, MD. My father and sister are both Georgetown alums. Yet when I was admitted to Michigan and Georgetown, both of them recommended I go to Michigan. This should say something about Michigan.

ArKhAiK · April 1, 2012, 12:04pm

I chose Michigan over Georgetown (with alumni relation too).

albina23 · April 1, 2012, 3:31pm

to ArKhAiK: why?
to Alexandre: what about professor’s inaccessibility, large auditoriums, less personal attention, TA?

GoBlue81 · April 1, 2012, 3:44pm

Have you received your FA package yet? I presume you have already filed your CSS/FA Profile?

albina23 · April 1, 2012, 4:00pm

GoBlue81: actually, I have no idea when I will hear from GT about FA, since I have only received the decision this Friday. I guess, maybe in a week or so.

ArKhAiK · April 1, 2012, 4:29pm

@albina23

I chose Michigan over Georgetown for quite a few reasons:

The perfect integration between school and town. Sure Georgetown has its nice town, but it felt too touristy and not collegey enough for me and wasn’t ‘with’ the school necessarily. Ann Arbor’s amazing.
The irrational school pride Michigan has for its sports teams. I’ve never experienced it yet but I’ve heard how amazing football Saturday is in Ann Arbor. I was at the Michigan/OSU game and that was insane too. Georgetown’s basketball team doesn’t even play on campus; it’s like a 30 min bus ride away.
Yes I understand Georgetown is more prestigious to the everyday person. However most employers/grad schools don’t really favor one over the other (and if they did it’d probably be towards Michigan). Michigan has like a million departments in the top 10 in the country whereas Georgetown has…not too sure but less.
For me, Georgetown’s campus was too small. I prefer sprawling campuses.

Don’t get me wrong, I still love Georgetown and I thought that was where I was going to go ever since my sister graduated last May. Every one in a while I do question my decision, but I know Michigan is right. It was really people like Alexandre and rjkofnovi that convinced me Michigan was one of the greatest, most well-rounded universities in the world. It seems as if Michigan is a dark-horse among academia and a lot of kids at my school don’t realize how strong of a reputation it has, even stronger than UVA and UNC.

res_ipsa · April 1, 2012, 10:09pm

“what about professor’s inaccessibility, large auditoriums, less personal attention, TA?”

It really depends on what you take. The largest classes are in auditoriums that seat about 500 students and there are a number fo these classes. Almost all are introductory survey classes. Most of the larger classes have discussions sections that have about 25 students (some of less - especially if they are not full) and are taught by a GSI (21st century terminology for TA). Math classes, freshman writing classes and foreign language classes are in the 18-30 student range and there are a number of freshman seminar classes that are smaller.

The GSI’s vary in quality as do the professors. Some of the GSI’s are quite good.

As far as accessibility and personal attention, that depends on the professor and what you make of it. I think it would be extremely rare for a professor to go out of his or her way to give a student attention but that you would be pleasantly surprised at the attention you will receive if you assert yourself. As a parent and an alumnus, I have found the U-M faculty quite motivitated toward undergraduate education and working with students. Internet technology has also made it much easier for students and faculty to communicate with each other.

goldenboy8784 · April 2, 2012, 3:04am

I can understand Emory but UVA is just as prestigious as Georgetown and Michigan internationally. A recent poll of business executives and chairmen in 10 countries confirms this.

[Education</a> - Image - NYTimes.com](<a href=“Education - Image - NYTimes.com”>Education - Image - NYTimes.com)
UVA: 37
Michigan: 52
Georgetown: 54

The intellectual elite in all countries internationally will be aware of all of these schools anyway. It’s up to albina to choose the business program that’s right for her.

LOL Alexandre! You can’t just lump all of the East Coast together. Growing up in Brooklyn in NYC is a lot different than growing up in Bethesda, MD and both experiences are different from growing up in rural Georgia.

Your Ohio and Michigan example is apt though. The Midwest is a lot more homogeneous though than the “East Coast” if you wish to lump all of these as such.

Vladenschlutte · April 2, 2012, 3:16am

I don’t know what data they collected and how it was analyzed, but

UCLA: 11
Berkeley: 30
UCSD: 99
Michigan State: 39
Michigan: 52

Alexandre · April 2, 2012, 3:29am

MSU and PSU clearly took many votes from Michigan and Penn. Without this confusion, bothPenn abd Michigan crack the top 15. None of the academic ranking of international universities have UVA ranked anywhere near Michigan. Georgetown is not an academic powerhouse, but it has a strong reputation thanks to its location and I3 program.

As for the East Coast being more diverse than the Midwest, you have no idea what you are talking about. Comparing NYC to rural Georgia is the same as comparing Chicago to the Ozarks. Most students attending schools such as the Ivy League and Michigan come from a certain academic and socioeconomic background that varries very little from state to state. The social elite in New York will not be that different from the social elite in DC or Botston.

KyleTwentyEleven · April 2, 2012, 7:15am

@Vladenschlutte:
“I don’t know what data they collected and how it was analyzed, but”

UCLA: 11
Berkeley: 30
UCSD: 99
Michigan State: 39
Michigan: 52

So according to this incredibly flawed logic, I don’t know what data I collected or analyzed, but out of 9031 colleges:

UCLA: 1021
Berkely: 3
UCSD: Doesn’t exist
Michigan State: 9031
Michigan: 1

In regards to albina’s concerns:

1) I am not yet admitted to Ross (risky) - how much actually, if you work hard 1 year?

Getting admitted into Ross is not as risky as it used to be as they have increased the yearly size of the class by 100 students. At the same time you DO need to still work hard, and if you have any questions about how to safely get a place in Ross feel free to message me.

2) Huge university -> high acceptance rate -> not so smart students in general?

This may be true overall but you will find just as many incredibly smart students here as you will at Georgetown. It all depends on which group you want to be a part of.

3) Not a big fan of football and Greek life

You mean you’re not a fan of football and Greek life YET. I told myself that before I came to college but my opinion has changed drastically, football Saturdays here cannot be beat, and greek life is fun whether or not you’re a part of it.

4) Ann Arbor is only a college town (boring to live for 4 years?)

Ann Arbor being a college town is a major plus compared to DC. You will NOT get bored here in 4 years and almost all of the major resources available in DC will be available in Ann Arbor (ie. there is a mall, tons of bars, stores to fit any need, etc. with the exception of the federal government being in DCs backyard). Ann Arbor isn’t quite as urban as DC is, but at the same time you will be able to walk anywhere you need to as a student, and for what you need to drive to there is a very good bus system available. I would MUCH rather spend 4 years of college in Ann Arbor then DC.

rjkofnovi · April 2, 2012, 8:27am

“MSU and PSU clearly took many votes from Michigan and Penn.”

Which has been pointed out numerous times to goldenboy I might add. Newspapers are perhaps some of the WORST authorities to get accurate information. They have to meet strict deadlines and too often send out erroneous information. The NYT is just as bad as any of them. When they are caught with bad reporting, all they simply do is write a retraction and it’s over. I wish my mistakes were so easily dismissed.

rjkofnovi · April 2, 2012, 8:30am

“None of the academic ranking of international universities have UVA ranked anywhere near Michigan.”

Do you actually expect goldenboy to show any survey that puts Michigan in a good light?

MichorPlan2 · April 2, 2012, 12:18pm

D took a class at GT as a high school senior. She liked Georgetown but did not love it. She thought there was very little diversity in her class. Plus, she found it odd that for her 9 A.M. class, all the girls wore make-up. Although she was originally thinking about applying to GT (originally her only concern was going to college in the town where she grew up), she lost interest after taking a class there. As far as the ability of the students, as a high school senior she had the highest grade in the freshman astronomy class she took at GT. Granted that is only a sample size of one, but she does not believe that the GT students are superior to her class mates at Mich. (Although being in LSA Honors probably helps with that.) As far as the Greek thing, she had absolutely no interest, but she tagged along with her friends at rush and found a sorority that she fell in love with and now has a great time there.

One other thing, most of your cons for Mich I tend to disagree with, but there is one giant pro for GT that you should consider. Due to the government being here, it is one of the great universities in the country for internships, that is something you should keep in mind.

goldenboy8784 · April 2, 2012, 1:59pm

rjkofnovi, if you took some time to actually analyze pieces of information instead of launching accusations left and right, you would find that NYT was merely reporting the results of a survey conducted by the French surveying company Emerging. It didn’t directly create this ranking.

You can’t just dismiss a ranking because it doesn’t jive with your preconceived notions about the pecking order of universities. Michigan State and Penn State graduate thousands and thousands of students each year so it’s very likely they have a lot of alumni working in these companies internationally due to the sheer amount of people they graduate each year. The methodology of this ranking is quite clear and there’s nothing inaccurate about it:

“Hundreds of chairmen and chief executives, chosen from leading companies in 10 countries, were asked to select the top universities from which they recruited. Compiled by the surveying company Emerging, the list displays the top 150 universities most frequently selected.”

None of the academic rankings of international universities are widely followed and have nothing to do with the reputations of those schools domestically or abroad. Otherwise, UCB would be seen as superior to Princeton, UCLA as better than Yale, Wisconsin as better than Duke or Penn, basically every state flagship as better than Brown or Dartmouth, etc. etc.

Besides, if executive chairmen abroad are confusing Penn with Penn and MSU with Michigan, what does that say about the reputation of UMich and UPenn? That means they aren’t prestigious to begin with. Penn does pretty well on this ranking by the way logging in at 24. I doubt 75th ranked Penn State took away many votes from Penn lol!

I would advise albina to choose based on fit. This isn’t Columbia vs. Michigan or Chicago vs. Georgetown we’re talking about here. All of these schools are more or less equally reputable with Georgetown getting the slight edge and a decent boost on the East Coast.

Ross (Michigan) vs Mcdonough (Georgetown)

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