ross

<p>I was just looking at the website. Over 1000 people applied to Ross as sophomores and only 400 or so got in? That seems very, very risky if you want to study business. What does everyone who doesn't get in do? Study Economics?</p>

<p>Is it the same thing in Engineering?</p>

<p>
[quote]
Is it the same thing in Engineering?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>No. You apply directly into the engineering school when you apply to UM. You either get into it and UM together, or not at all. You don't have to do anything later on.</p>

<p>
[quote]
That seems very, very risky if you want to study business. What does everyone who doesn't get in do? Study Economics?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>More or less.</p>

<p>Do people who study economics at michigan get jobs? Employers would know you didn't get into Ross. Also, economics is really not a good substitute for business.</p>

<p>I would say studying Economics is better than Business in a purely academic sense, especially for highly motivated students who pursue the more mathematical route (Econometrics, Game Theory, etc.). </p>

<p>In terms of employment, the only thing different, is that the Ross career office is better than LSA's, so Ross BBA students have better recruitment. All other things equal, both degrees hold the same amount of weight. Business isn't really s degree were a lot of REAL content is learned. Classes like accounting are useful, but beyond that you aren't really "learning" much. You are properly groomed for the business world though. </p>

<p>Don't get me wrong, the Ross BBA is a solid program and it's a good route to take for those who aren't engineers and aren't particularly interested in pursing sciences or humanities.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Employers would know you didn't get into Ross.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>A lot of the freshman I've talked to who are planning on becoming Econ majors (even those interested in business) were not even considering Ross because the simply were interested in studying Econ more. So the Econ major is for more than just Ross rejects. </p>

<p>Interestingly enough a lot of the BBA students I've talked to, don't really enjoy Economics and that is why they pursued business.</p>

<p>"...Employers would know you didn't get into Ross."</p>

<p>Amazon, that is not accurate. Obviously, Econ majors with sub-standard GPAs may be accused of being Ross rejects. But it is important to remember tha Michigan's economics department is generally ranked anywhere between #8 and #13 in the US. It is one of the best of its kind and is generally known to be undergraduate-focused. Econ majors graduating with 3.5 GPAs or better will generally not be accused of being Ross rejects.</p>

<p>This said, few students majoring in Economics anywhere in the US will have similar employment opportunities as Ross students. Harvard, Princeton and Dartmouth are the exception to the rule. Econ majors at other elite universities (including Michigan) will simply not have the same placement success as Ross students. Even during the worst economic downturn of the last 80 years (2008-2011), over 20% of Ross graduates were placed into BB IBanks and major MC firms. That's pretty impressive considering that over half of Ross students don't even seek such jobs.</p>

<p>At any rate, the 35% admit rate into Ross for Michigan students is misleading. Many of those rejected students had sub 3.4 GPAs. For qualified applicants (3.5+ GPAs) who have a legitimate reason for wanting to major in Business, I would say that the acceptance rate into Ross is closer to 90%. I do not known of many qualified Michigan student who was turned down by Ross.</p>

<p>For Michigan students who wish to transfer into the CoE, the odds are much better. Any qualified student can transfer into Engineering. A 3.0 GPA in the requisite courses (Math 115, 116, 215 and 216, Physics and Chemistry) ought to do it.</p>

<p>Is acceptance based on your performance in particular classes like accounting or calculus? Is it hard to get A's in these classes? My daughter went to a different college and she was accepted directly into the b-school and she did really badly in a couple of those kinds of classes but still got through the b-school and got a good job.</p>

<p>I think some people who think that econ is a good substitute for business don't really know what people in business do. And I have an MA in economics. There's marketing, human resources, accounting, etc. Econ and Finance may overlap but otherwise you won't really know much about business. A kid that I know, is studying Econ at Cornell and she's trying to get a job in management consulting and they're asking her to do case studies and she has to read a book to learn that.</p>

<p>Alexandre so if you are a potential freshman and you aren't certain if you want to go into engineering you could apply to LSA take the sequence you mention and enter CoE as a sophomore? Is the reverse also true? Say you apply and are accepted to CoE but decide you don't like it and want to move to LSA as a sophomore?</p>

<p>momoftyhreeboys, transfering from the CoE to LSA is automatic. Assuming you are a student in good standing, all one needs to do is walk to the office of the registrar and ask for the switch. Trnasfering from LSA to the CoE is straight forward but not automatic. A student must demonstrate ability to cope with the rigor of the programs. As such, maintaining a 3.0+ GPA in Mathematics and Physics classes is expected. If that is achieved, transfering is virtually guaranteed.</p>

<p>amazon, obviously Ross would like to see prospective students maintain good grades in subjects such as Calculus and Econ. But successful applicants must do well in unrelated subjects too. Ross will typically expect a 3.5 or better GPA overall. Whether it is easy to do so or not depends on the student. Some students find it manageable while others really struggle. To the average Michigan student, maintaining such a GPA is challenging but reasonably so.</p>

<p>I agree that Economics and Business are not substitutes. Business is more hands-on and less challenging than Econ. If one is determined to work in the private sector, business or Engineering is the way to go. If one is aiming for Law or Medical school, traditional majors such as Biology or Economics make more sense. </p>

<p>Firms do not really care about the technical skills that students acquired at Business school. The reason why B-school students have better placement into firms is because good b-schools have very aggresive and effective career offices, while traditional liberal arts programs do not.</p>

<p>Are there particular classes that prospective Ross students should or must take in their Freshman year? If you take calculus and macroeconomics AP classes, do you have to take harder calculus and macro as a freshman? Michigan doesn't seem to weight honors classes for admission. Do they take into consideration the toughness of the classes you're taking freshman year?</p>

<p>This aside, is it difficult to get the classes you need to graduate in 4 years and can you do a double major across schools?</p>

<p>Obviously, there are classes that students who wish to enroll into Ross must take, such as Calculus, Econ, Accounting and English writing. Those are listed in the Ross website. </p>

<p><a href="http://www.bus.umich.edu/Admissions/BBA/RegularAdmission.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.bus.umich.edu/Admissions/BBA/RegularAdmission.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Even students who are pre-admitted must take those classes and maintain a reasonable GPA (3.0 or better I believe).</p>

<p>Michigan definitely weights strength of curriculum very heavily. Students are expected to take as many APs and Honors classes as their schools offer. Along with GPA, class rigor is the determining factor in getting into Michigan.</p>

<p>It is usually easy to get into any class at Michigan. I personally never failed to register for a class I wanted or needed. I double majored in 4 years. All of my friends also double majored, and like myself, none of them were ever locked out of a class and they all graduated in 4 years. the only time a student may have trouble registering for a class is the first semester.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Michigan doesn't seem to weight honors classes for admission.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Yes they do. They look at the classes you take on your transcript in the context of what your school offers and your academic interests. They may not physically "add points" to your GPA or recalculate GPAs but they see which classes you took in high school and they have your school profile. It's a very important component. Michigan has a very nice web page on how they evaluate applications and which characteristics are most important. </p>

<p><a href="http://www.admissions.umich.edu/applying/Template_Rating_Sheet-REV2009-10.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.admissions.umich.edu/applying/Template_Rating_Sheet-REV2009-10.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>I guess I was thrown by the fact that they state GPA as unweighted.</p>

<p>I wonder if it's better to go to another school as a freshman and then apply to the b-school as a sophomore because then if he doesn't get in, he could stay where he is or transfer somewhere else. Do they reject you in time to apply somewhere else?</p>

<p>Econ really isn't an option.</p>

<p>If so many people are rejected from the b-school, there have to be a lot of kids who were good enough to get into Michigan and still can't do well enough in the "weeder" classes.</p>

<p>My son would really like Michigan - he's a big sports fan and my husband went there but ...</p>

<p>Amazon, how certain are you that he wants to be a business major? This might be the time when you listen to the kids. He might want Michigan more than he wants Ross and be quite willing to take the gamble, you just never know. I have one who graduated with a Business/English double major (not from UofM) but if you step back "business" is really an interdisciplinary type of major with alittle bit of this and alittle bit of that. It might not matter to him in the long haul if the major is business or not. The degree is from UofM.
Here's the undergrad curriculum make-up at Ross:</p>

<p>120 Credits = BBA Degree</p>

<p>45+ business credits
54+ liberal arts credits
21 elective credits</p>

<p>He's not sure what he wants but he's not opposed to business. I would like to eliminate any college that doesn't offer a business major in case he wants to do that. A business major that he has a good chance of not being able to get into would be in the same category.</p>

<p>I think people really don't know what business majors study. At a good university, it's rigorous and quantitative. But I don't want to convince anyone to do business.</p>

<p>amazon, transfering to Ross from another university is very difficult.</p>

<p>If you are concerned about the quant part, it really depends on where the business student's interest lead. Everyone has some quant within the major but as students focus on their interest the quant can take a secondary position. I think that's why business is appealing to a variety of people. I went to an LAC but probably would have been intrigued with business as an undergrad. Even my MBA was structured that way...some quantitative classes and then segmenting into interest areas.</p>