Rude Finaid Officer at Scripps College

Paying for College
1

<p>I just wanted to share with everyone a discussion I had with a financial aid officer Scripps. I have been phoning a few Finaid officers to find out how they will be treating our Roth IRA conversion and how to make them aware of the issue.</p>

<p>Most of the schools were very nice, knew exactly what I was talking about, and informed me that they would reduce the AGI by the amount of the conversion and that I needed to include the amount on the FAFSA and CSS but to write a letter letting them know the amount to back out.</p>

<p>Which brings me to my call with that person who was was both condescending and patronising to me on the phone as well as inaccurate. Here is the gist of the call:</p>

<p>Me: Good-afternoon. I’m phoning because my daugther has applied to Scripps College for admission in Fall 2010 and I’m finalising my Fafsa and CSS and… </p>

<p>Officer: (interupts) You haven’t finished the forms yet!! You needed to have them submitted by now!</p>

<p>Me: I’ve already submitted them with estimates but now that my accountant has completed the forms I am finalizing the details and I have a question regarding a Roth IRA Conversion</p>

<p>Officer: (interupts again) Just include it in your asset value</p>

<p>Me: I’m calling to ask how the conversion should be reflected on the FAFSA and how Scripps treats this </p>

<p>Officer: It should go in the asset value</p>

<p>Me: No I mean how is the amount backed out of the AGI</p>

<p>Officer: I told you it just needs to go in the asset value</p>

<p>Me: So do I need to write you to let you know the amount</p>

<p>Officer: Sure you can send us a letter</p>

<p>Me: Ok thanks</p>

<p>Now I know everyone has an off day, but frankly it made me think twice that if a financial aid officer spoke to me as if to say “hey if you need money don’t come here” then how are they going to treat my daughter?</p>

<p>BTW- the Pitzer office was sweet, very helpful, and told me they’ve been getting a lot of calls about this and understood my concerns. She told me unfortunately it has to be included on the FAFSA and CSS but that we should email them so they can make the adjustments.</p>

2

<p>Did you get the person’s name? You need to let the director of FA at Scripps know about this. This is just ridiculous. What’s worse, if this guy treated you that way, he/she likely is treating others that way. There is something worse than condescension… when they’re condescending and don’t know what they’re talking about.</p>

3

<p>I am always frustrated and disappointed when I run into a person like that. There are a few in every business, and they give all their organization a bad name.</p>

<p>I agree with scottaa. It’s one thing if a person is incompetent and nice–you just have to shake your head. But if they are incompetent AND rude–you want to shake them till they rattle!</p>

4

<p>Scottaa: I do have the person’s name. Suffice to say this was a senior level person within the department who should know better which is why it is all the more concerning to me that the dept is run this way. I’m an accountant so I’m pretty sure I was clear in my questioning. I can only imagine how this person and the dept speak to the young adults to attend the school and need finaid.</p>

5

<p>Sorry, while the scripps rep may have been extremely short, IMO your question was wasting his/her time. Unless/until your kid gets admitted, it really doesn’t matter how they handle it. Once the finaid award comes out is the time to request Professional review. They will not do it prior. (And sure, there is nothing wrong with answering the questions in a nicer way, but the questions maybe moot if your kid is not accepted. Heck, everyone has bad days on the phone – haven’t we ALL – maybe his/her kid attends an east coast school that was closed and the kid is stranded in an airport somewhere.)</p>

<p>btw: you are an accountant and you have an accountant? The finaid forms ain’t that difficult. fwiw: it’s been my limited experience that accountants screw them up. (I too am in the biz.)</p>

6

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<p>Excuse me??? College is a business and this person is their customer. A customer who is unfamiliar with this process and is trying to figure it out. That is just dead wrong. The person was out of line, throwing out bad information, information which would cost people thousands of dollars. At the very least, the person should be called on the carpet for it.</p>

7

<p>bluebayou

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<p>Honestly I’d much prefer to wait until an admissions decision had been made to file all the finaid forms but sadly the system isn’t set up that way.</p>

<p>As to the fact that I have an accountant do my “TAX” forms then yes. With respect to the financial aid forms, perhaps your tax affairs are fairly simple with you being “in the biz” and all. I’m not sure many people would agree with you in your assessment that the fin aid forms “ain’t that difficult”. </p>

<p>By the way, I have a child not a “kid”. </p>

<p>I’m not sure as to the point of your post-can you please clarify?</p>

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<p>I am a financial aid officer. Yes, I have bad days. However, my bad days need to be on hold when I answer the phone. I have been dealing with aging parent issues, my workload is overwhelming, and students/parents are often extremely frustrating for so many & such varied reasons. Yet I am unfailingly pleasant on the telephone. That is my job.</p>

<p>I would share this encounter with someone in charge. It reflects poorly on the institution, and the employee needs to be aware of how you feel.</p>

9

<p>I’ve been thinking more about what is at the heart of my annoyance. I completely understand when people have bad days, or have a lot on their mind, or any number of things that can cause a person to not show themselves in the best light. The primary feeling that was upsetting was the condescending tone, not simply just rushed, but one of being spoken down to and dismissed as not worthy of an accurate response. Now I knew that the initial response I was given was incorrect so I tried, very calmly to restate my query so that perhaps the finaid officer had a chance to reflect on my query, but no I was dismissed with the same response.</p>

<p>I calmly hung up the phone. It just bothers me to think that for a school that is, by its very nature, guided by a mission to empower, educate, and encourage young women, that the person (male) could have gotten it oh so wrong.</p>

<p>There seems to be this disconnect during the whole college admissions process as to who is the client and who is the service provider. We all stand in line, telling our children to stand up straight, smile at the nice people, be polite, etc…keep our fingers crossed and hope that somehow the college sees fit to find our money (sometimes a considerable amount of money) worth taking. </p>

<p>It seems to me the whole process is backwards…</p>

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<p>Cayman, for a different perspective, I would hesitate to voice a complaint while my child remained in the admit/deny queue at any college. I wouldn’t think a “you work for me” .tone would be a plus in an age where I imagine colleges feel they already have a lot of helicopter parenting to deal with.</p>

<p>I can add that Scripps has been a shortlist college for us, and my experience has been warm and helpful with both Admissions and FinAid contacts there.</p>

11

<p>For me there are two separate issues:

  1. As reported by the OP, the FA officer seemed curt and rude;
  2. Even worse, the FA officer was (I think) either not listening or poorly trained: “Just include it in your asset value” doesn’t even make sense given the question asked. The OP’s question is relating to whether the item should truly be included as an income item, and the FA Officer’s response never answers that question. I have no idea what the FA Officer is even thinking – the OP should just report the (balances) in the Roth account? I didn’t even think that retirement account balances were included in the FAFSA analysis. Assets are very different from income, and I’m not clear that the FA officer understands the difference, which is a little scary.</p>

<p>On a minor positive front, we did a moderate Roth conversion last year, and it had never occurred to me that it might be something that would be considered a special circumstance. It is worth writing a letter to school to see if they’ll consider an adjustment.</p>

12

<p>I had a similar conversation with a higher level financial aid person myself recently and was disappointed with the interaction.</p>

<p>Sort of like the OP’s experience, I felt the guy was trying to brush me off with a short answer, just to get off the phone. Like the conversation was not important to him. That was what made me mad.</p>

<p>Similarly, if someone does not know the answer, I would much rather they say they don’t know, than to try to foist off some seat-of-their-pants guess.</p>

13

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<p>Uhh, not really. The student applicant is a prospective customer (not the parent). The OP was asking for assistance in completing FAFSA, and the first letter (“f”) stands for ‘federal’, not a specific college. The question of how to properly report a Roth conversion goes to those folks who designed the form, IMO. (More importantly, the more folks that call DC with (common?) questions like this the easier it is for the feds to realize that they need better instructions for next year. If no one calls, they’ll never know.)</p>

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<p>Actually it is the second “f” that stands for “federal.”</p>

<p>I don’t understand what the big deal is. Somebody at this university was having a bad day and was less than professional to one caller. That tells us what?</p>

15

<p>bluebayou:

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<p>Correction, I was asking how to reflect a Roth Conversion on BOTH FAFSA and CSS. </p>

<p>The answer I got was “just include it in your assets”</p>

<p>dt123: I don’t care how bad a day you’re having, if you are the director of the department you should at least be able to give out accurate information.</p>

<p>With respect to the “Student” being the prospective customer- that would imply that the student was the buyer. If that were true then they wouldn’t need me or my financial information and would care less about my Roth conversion or anything else. But since I’m the buyer, I’m the customer. The student is merely the beneficiary of the service.</p>

<p>Also, since each school seems to have it’s own special way of looking at things, I fail to see how calling “DC” is going to solve the problem. It’s less about where to put the information on the form and more about how each school uses that information.</p>

16

<p>A few thoughts to share:</p>

<p>College is indeed a business and while the student may be a “prospective” student and the parent may only be the mere conduit in terms of ensuring that the student has the financial assistance (whether through financial aid, savings, taking out a second mortgage, etc.) to attend, this is precisely how reputations are made. </p>

<p>When I was looking at private schools many years ago, you can be absolutely certain that the attitudes and tones conveyed either during admissions events or via telephone would not only determine whether I was going to pursue it but, as importantly, what information I conveyed to others. </p>

<p>An unhappy customer tells far more people that a satisfied customer. So while colleges do indeed “hold the cards” in terms of financial aid (and admissions), we as parents (or our children as students) can “use their feet” to convey their willingness to deal with attitude. Everyone at this time is under pressure.</p>

<p>I’d also like to say that I have contacted several financial aid offices over the past several weeks and understand the huge level of work these professionals have before them. I had one conversation with a financial aid person (private LA college) who was absolutely amazing – kind, patient, willing to assist. If I was on the fence about whether my child would pursue this college (which I was not), this clearly would have tipped the scales. If a busy financial aid counselor treated me this way, what a great face to the public.</p>

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<p>I agree totally that nobody should ever have a bad day and be less than polite to somebody. I am not so sure that the Honcho of FA should know the answer to the question you were asking. It may be that he manages people who know the answer to your question. The glitch may have been that you got through to him with your detailed question on a relatively new issue. Everyone else may have been having birthday cake in the break room or something. </p>

<p>Again, what is it we are suppose to learn from this? Don’t apply to this university? Or don’t expect perfection in all things?</p>

18

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<p>ok i’m prepared to take flames for this but… If I’m looking to buy a car I can either buy a $20K car or a $55k car. I would expect that if i’m shopping for a $55k car that I’m going to get a different level of service. Now if the lower end dealership takes the time to go through all of the options with me, shows me how they work, offers me coffee, follows up with me after the sale to see if I have any questions etc, then i’m ecstatic because they’ve far exceeded my expectations. If they don’t do all these things then hey i figure what do you expect for that price point. </p>

<p>But if the $50k dealership doesn’t do all these things and more i feel cheated and i’m not happy. Why? because the extra $30k i’m paying includes a stepped up level of service.</p>

<p>I see it the same way with colleges. If the private LAC’s want to charge $50K+/yr and expect me to give them an unending amount of financial data within an almost impossible tight timeframe then the very least they should do is to frickin’ know what the heck they do with the information they are asking for.</p>

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<p>I agree with everything you say. You are right to expect better.</p>

<p>So your dilemma is, is this a dealbreaker, even if this is your child’s first choice in the end, is a perfect fit otherwise, and the financial aid comes out OK? Or is it a glitch to be annoyed at and charitably overlooked? Is it a mountain or a molehill?</p>

<p>I should add that I have now seen 2 and soon 3 kids through colleges as expensive as that and believe me things do not always go perfectly. Try getting something answered at your regional public U.</p>

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<p>dt123: Thank you for your query, you make some excellent points. </p>

<p>Actually, I haven’t said a word to our daughter about the incident. My husband and I have decided see what the admissions decisions and financial aid package(s) are from each of the schools and that will narrow down the list. I’m sure is Scripps is still on the list at that point, we would have had at least a few more exchanges with the finaid dept so will have an opportunity to judge whether this was a one-off encounter or indicative of something more pervasive.</p>

<p>It’s been quite an irratating weekend filling out forms…thank goodness cc the on-line venting machine is ready at all hours!!</p>

<p>Cheers</p>