<p>One of my kids had a very positive Greek experience and I am still anti-frat. It is simplistic to think that adults will form their points of view on the basis of one datapoint- even if that data is derived from their own kid whom they adore (most of the time) and trust (most of the time) and are disappointed with (some of the time.)</p>
<p>My son and niece just started school last week. Yes at my alma mater. What my niece went through with sorority rush was brutal. She is a very attractive girl with an exceptional personality. But she is a little heavy. I would guess she is 5’5" amd weighs 140lbs. OK she could lose a few pounds. I believe that she did not get invited to her favorite houses, because of her weight.</p>
<p>As incredible as this may sound. I really believe this was the case. </p>
<p>My son is going to wait to rush next semester. Since he is an engineering major he doesnt want to get in over his head. Please tell me the frats are not so full of it as the sororities seem to be. My son should not have an issue, because he is fit and a very handsome young man. But this sorority rush thing really hit me the wrong way.</p>
<p>Oh one more thing: the hours and schedule they put the girls through were outrageous.</p>
<p>She did join a sorority but it was not her favorite one. As posted before I think it was a good move on her part to accept the house that wanted her. She is now extremely happy she joined.</p>
<p>It’s Kappa Rap 2 at Baylor University that is the YouTube video I mentioned above - I just got this title from the family member who showed me this and it just about made me sick to my stomach. I believe there are a variety of comments, including truly vulgar ones, after this video. I repeat that things like this set back the status of women by about 60 yrs.
Sorry dudes, we’re in Silicon Valley and stuff like this is so contrary to the maturity, lifestyle, education, goals of anyone we know.</p>
<p>I was shown this video about a week ago, so if it is incorrect, I apologize. No way would I waste my time viewing it again, but if there is a misunderstanding or error (wrong university, etc.), then I apologize in advance. For the sake of this discussion, I quickly asked my family member for the title of the video and I am guessing it IS correct.</p>
<p>lateparty, consider the fact that sorority life is different based on the schools. I can assure you, since I advised a Bay Area chapter for 8 years, that it is not all about parties and sex. These young women were smart enough to get into UC Berkeley, they don’t lose their morals and values just because they add sisters. Do you really think the women that join sororities at Northwestern or Harvard are any less sophisticated than their peers? </p>
<p>gator4ever- congrats to your niece for finding a group of women that wanted her as a friend and sister. Your story proves that even at a competitive environment, looks weren’t the most important factor. No doubt she has great conversation skills and demonstrated that she would bring something to the house. So what if she didn’t get her favorite. there are no bad houses in those competitive schools in Florida. Ask her next semester if she is happy with her house and you will most likely hear that she can’t imagine herself anywhere else. Rush is brutal-long hours in the heat or snow (depending on the time), and it is full of high emotions. The PNMs are in the houses no more than 4 hours total, but somehow the majority of people come out happy.</p>
<p>If she chooses to do it again, pledging as a sophomore is a whole different ball of wax. I was dinged (did not get asked back to final parties anywhere) my freshman year (over 20 years ago) and I’d actually forgotten about it til I read this thread, so don’t worry–it won’t scar her for life! And I completely agree with the advice to get out there on campus and join some organizations and meet some people that way. This could be a big blessing and give her time to figure out which house she actually wants to be in–what you see in Rush is really what houses want to present themselves as–I’m not sure it’s a great substitute for really getting to know people organically.</p>
<p>When I was rejected, I knew where I wanted to pledge and I wasn’t asked back for formal night there or anywhere. It was tough at the time. I did take a weekend off campus and went to visit friends and just clear my head. My school had January rush, and most of the friends that I made the semester prior did pledge the house I wanted. When I went through rush as a sophomore, I was much more comfortable, and had no problems pledging the house I wanted. My friends pulled me in. I had a very good experience in the house, and since it was a LAC in the NE we were low on anything that focused on being “hot” or revolved around our clothes. We did some good community service, had a lot of fun theme parties, and I really liked being a part of the old traditions on campus. I was surprised at how attached I felt the actual house when I went back to my college for reunion-it brought up only happy memories.</p>
<p>To me, it was a social organization and just one option among many to get involved on campus at my college. I wouldn’t give it any more significance than that.</p>
<p>I’m</p>
<p>@MizzBee, the university "featured in the YouTube video is Baylor.
Personally, I would not want my daughter taking part in such a sorority (name is crystal clear!)
Of course, practices among Greeks varies and I already indicated I have not witnessed certain sections of the country - however, there are certain areas I have directly witnessed things that, frankly, appalled me, and I come from a very liberal area of the country.</p>
<p>“Sorry dudes, we’re in Silicon Valley and stuff like this is so contrary to the maturity, lifestyle, education, goals of anyone we know.” </p>
<p>Yes much better values to have over-priced mini-mansions, $300,000 sports cars, and $500 bottles of wine. And good help.</p>
<p>Yes. Baylor. Conservative school. In Texas. Can’t be extrapolated to, say, the sorority system at MIT.</p>
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<p>Perhaps, but the bottom line could also be :</p>
<p>Those of us with kids who have had positive or negative Greek experiences will have an opinion biased by the said experience. </p>
<p>Those with no direct first-hand experience with Greek life will be able to form an unbiased opinion based on facts and attempt to evaluate them with the benefit of some distance.</p>
<p>Sorry xiggi, but I disagree. I believe that those of us who were in the Greek system and have kids who are in the Greek system with friends who are in the Greek system at a variety of types of schools have a far better first hand idea of the pros and cons of said system. Those with no direct experience tend to form opinions based on stereotypes (both good and bad). Not true of everyone to be sure, but the stereotypes prevail and that’s a real shame.</p>
<p>Parents with kids in the Greek system have information based on what their kids tell them, and depending whether it has been a good experience or not, that’s how we generally form our opinion.</p>
<p>People with no direct experience would usually get their information from what they read in papers or books. My experience with that type of information is it is generally biased and over sensationalized depending on which point they want to prove.</p>
<p>I think it is best for students to go to a school where the Greek system is not too overly dominant, which would give a student an option to join or not. I would encourage students to look into Greek before rejecting it, just like anything new in college. If it’s not for you, walk away, but never do anything you don’t want to do just to belong, no different than joing a club or a clique.</p>
<p>i think the greek system is a good experience for most people.</p>
<p>your D should go again sophomore year yet have a few houses on her list that are OK to join. </p>
<p>lateparty: Woodside or even Pac-height is neither anti-greek or liberal. Ask Benioff and Cook what Frats they were in at USC:) And Cook, Benioff, Chambers (Stanford frat) and the rest of the boys max their democratic and republican donations…it’s not about politics in the valley, it’s about money, no one is liberal or conservative, you should know that</p>
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<p>And what exactly are those ‘facts’? Provide sources, please.</p>
<p>I’m not saying that someone can’t hear stories that turn them off to the Greek system. Trust me, you couldn’t have paid me enough to join a sorority when I was in school. It just not the way I like to socialize. I chuckle to myself every time I write a post defending the Greek system because it wasn’t something I would have ever imagined myself doing a year ago.</p>
<p>BUT I have never felt the need to criticize the system nor those who choose to partake in it (at least I don’t think I did). Or even justify my reasons for not wanting to be a member of a sorority. Different strokes for different folks. I * did* tend to believe a lot of the stereotypes. I did have some concerns when my son chose to go through rush and there are definitely some downsides to the pledging process. But it can be a very positive experience for a lot of students. I’m truly sorry that the OP daughter didn’t get into one of the houses she wanted. As a parent, I would have felt bad for her as I did when my son didn’t get into his first choice of college but that doesn’t mean there is something wrong with the Greek system or the college application process. There are lots of great kids on both fronts that get rejected. It sucks but it is what it is.</p>
<p>one risk in rushing is rejection. but this risk of rejection started at 14, that’s when most kids stop getting to do everything just for showing up, be it soccer, calculus, admissions to college, or acceptance to a house or hired at a tier 1 firm such as Apple or facebook.</p>
<p>i think many kids or parents who didn’t rush didn’t feel like they could compete to begin with, so they didn’t try. and that “sorting” that goes on in life hurts, but that’s reality…</p>
<p>but not trying is not really living is it</p>
<p>Well, there are many avenues for “trying,” and I can’t agree that many people who didn’t rush made that decision because they didn’t feel as if they could compete in that arena. Maybe they’re the kind of people who prefer small groups of intimate friends, or even solitude; maybe they don’t care much about fashion, team sports, parties, or whatever other criteria are legitimately important in the rush process. These people can still be competitive in their academic and professional lives. </p>
<p>It’s a big world. And at least so far, there’s room for everyone.</p>
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<p>I agree. Just as you can’t paint all fraternities with the same broad negative stroke, you can’t assume students don’t go through rush because they they are afraid of rejection. Lots of kids have zero interest in fraternities because it’s just not their thing.</p>
<p>news flash for frazzled: there is not room for everyone. Or what my favorite econ prof called a zero sum game. there will be losers and winners, and now that global competition is here completely, there will be a lot of US citizens who lose.</p>
<p>it’s not coming, it’s here.</p>
<p>Pacheight, chill.</p>
<p>When and where you went to college had a lot to do with how Greek life is seen or experiences. There always seem to be ebbs and flows, and each new generation changes the organizations. What is happening in this generation seem to be less hazing (and quicker prosecution/punishmnet for the activities), more legitimate time in community service, more diverse pledge classes, greater networking happening while still in schools. It all makes sense, since our kids live their lives much more publicly (so secret hazing is easily outed), they are used to doing community service to get into school, kids are going all over the country to respecitve schools so chapter ABC is no longer all the blondes from X town, and this genereation wants to get something tangible for their hard work and costs. How our grandchildren will change greek life will also not match our own college experiences. </p>
<p>I find that the young women that I advise actually worry more about their reputations then my sisters and I appeared to while in school in the 80s. Course, it was still the early days fo the AIDS epidemic, Madonna was our idol and our parents really had no idea what we were doing in college. My cousins in that went to school in the 70s would never have been sorority girls because they were not seen as progressive or empowering.</p>
<p>With this competitive baby-boomlet that is occurring, I think it can be seen as an easy way to meet people and get involved. After all, most kids are used to orgnaized activities, and the Greek system offers them the comfort of structure. It may madden some parents that their own offspring want to join this system, but didn’t you encourage them to stay busy with acitivites rather than let them just sit in a room playing video games? In Greek life on almost every campus, they have structured community service, chapter meetings, people to vote for them when running for office at campus activities, existing friends already in a group/club/sport, even automatic intramural opportunities. It is structure at its best, even with a guaranteed party of a Friday night and organized ways to meet the opposite sex with less pressure than walking up to a strange girl/guy in class. You stressed leadership opportunities in high school, well how about freshman pledge rep, sophomore community service organizer, junior recruitment chair and senior chapter president? Need a summer job, pledge X dad owns a vineyard and loves to hire X friends. Sending out applications as a senior, well the alumni network comes into play. For all the negative that is brought up about drinking and hazing, can you at least see why it can be appealing to an 18 year-old?</p>