<p>Sorry I jumped in… you guys must be talking about something else that has to do with culture and picking victims… I’m still thinking about Ravi and his roommate…I’ll butt out until I have time to catch up on the thread :-)</p>
<p>To me, speculating that Ravi might have been exposed to homophobia at home because of his parents’ Hindu background is similar to speculating that family issues could have contributed to Tyler’s suicide.</p>
<p>We just don’t know and I don’t think it matters.</p>
<p>I agree with momofthreeboys that the cruelty and disrespect for privacy by the perpetrators is what is central.</p>
<p>I wish we could turn off the spotlight on Ravi and the speculation about his cultural heritage. IMHO it doesn’t go anywhere meaningful in comprehending this tragedy. Sadly, I believe that many tech-savvy kids (and adults!) might be capable of perpetrating this ugly mischief. Ravi was a bit-player, as I see it.</p>
<p>It’s more important to confront pervasive homophobia in our own (US) culture, and the shame, rejection, and despair this causes in so many gay youth.</p>
<p>I totally agree that what Ravi did was wrong in every way no matter who the victim was, gay or not! And right now, we don’t have all the facts, but I have a gut feeling that the fact that Tyler was gay played a part in the incident. </p>
<p>I’m definitely not blaming any cultural heritage or any other cause for Ravi’s views as we have no information on any of that. I was agreeing that someone may be influenced when it comes to tolerance (or not) by their family upbringing, religion, culture, school, community, media, etc. Many influences.</p>
<p>I agree, my gut says Tyler being gay is apart of why Ravi did what he did. There are multiple posts on his facebook talking about this fact. Even going back to his 1st post regarding Tyler where he announced to the world his roommate was gay.</p>
<p>bulletandpima, you make a very good point (#194), one that I hadn’t appreciated. What good does it do to teach tolerance for homosexuality when discrimination is the official policy of our government?</p>
<p>catbird, I don’t want the spotlight turned off Ravi for one minute. I am just appalled at someone who would broadcast their roommate’s private activity without their knowledge. I think this is Ravi’s personal lack of character issue. I don’t doubt for a minute that he did this precisely because he has issues with gays, but that he did this at all is a sign of how low he is willing to go. </p>
<p>Lots of tech-savvy people could have done this, but it took someone with Ravi’s unique set of character flaws and issues to actually do it.</p>
<p>I will sound my broken record again: This suicide happened because one 18 year old college freshman did not know how to react appropriately when his privacy was violated.</p>
<p>Violations of privacy are very common these days and gays are not the only targets. Pop culture today has made it okay for people to talk about intimate personal sexual lives (their own and someone else’s) in public- on TV, in print, on websites, on blogs, everywhere. Paparazzi are brazen. “Reality” shows push the envelope on decency and by calling it ‘reality’ they end up redefining what is considered acceptable behavior. Sexting is very common and it is also well known for kids to forward explicit images of an ex to others (without permission), especially as a way to hurt the ex after the break-up. I am not condoning people like Ravi who do the type of stuff he did, but I do not need to invoke homophobia or a foreign culture to explain what he did. Our own good old American culture has plenty of influences that made this more possible. And plenty of straight people (especially girls) have been victimized by privacy violations.</p>
<p>Ravi and his accomplice should be punished in accordance with New Jersey laws for their actions. There may be some Federal statutes that might apply too, since the images were broadcast out of state as well. We should make an example of them to drive home the message to our young that it is not cool to compromise someone else’s privacy just because you have the ability to. </p>
<p>But if we want to prevent future suicides like Tyler’s we need to focus on better preparing our young to deal with violations of their privacy and other forms of humiliation. And to make sure that our young have access to mental health counseling and support services when they are needed.</p>
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<p>Sadly those character flaws are not unique at all. They are very common.</p>
<p>Blankmind, someone I love more than my own life is gay. This story sickened and struck terror in me. I <em>personally</em> feel more urgent to understand the suicide decision itself. I believe we don’t have the full story yet of how and why the young man decided he had to die. That actually matters more to me, as a parent worrying from afar about a loved one, and how to protect a child from succumbing to emotional crises I couldn’t ever imagine.</p>
<p><em>Of course</em> I’m appalled at the roommate’s behavior and I hope/expect him to be prosecuted in a court of law.</p>
<p>This all would be an issue even if Tyler did not commit suicide. Yes, he chose suicide as his way of “coping” (or not). But what Ravi did wasn’t that common to tape someone else having sex without their knowledge and publicizing it. Others may do sexting but they are choosing to do that. Tyler wasn’t choosing for his tryst those two nights to be publicized. His privacy was violated to the max. I do believe the fact that he was gay played a part in it but it would have been just as bad even if he wasn’t gay. But Ravi did publicize the fact that his roommate was gay. He also publicized that his roommate was kissing another “dude.” He didn’t just say, “my roommate is having sex.”</p>
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<p>What the HECK are you talking about?!!! There is no showing that any images were broadcast out of state.</p>
<p>how did ravi know his roomate was gay back before school started in auguast…had tyler posted it, or told him prior to moving in??</p>
<p>It’s probably not a bad thing to review all the things we don’t know about this incident:</p>
<p>1.We don’t know for a fact that the roommate and friend’s acts were the catalyst for the suicide. We (myself included) are assuming correlation = causation, and this can be incorrect.</p>
<p>2.We don’t know for a fact that the person posting on the gay men’s site was actually Clementi. It seems plausible, but I have yet to see anything which points to proof of this.</p>
<p>3.Assuming the posts were made by Clementi, we still don’t know if he was angry, calm, or expressing bravado to hide his mortification. We may never know.</p>
<p>4.We don’t know the content of the video stream. I have read everything “having sex” to “sexual encounter” to “making out.” </p>
<ol>
<li>We don’t know what actual evidence the police possess. Personally, I would hope they have more to go on than a couple of Ravi’s Twitters. That would seem really weak.</li>
</ol>
<p>6.We don’t know Tyler’s family situation re:whether or not he was out to his parents, what his perception of their reaction would be, if it played into his suicide, etc.</p>
<p>In short, the more I read, the more I begin to understand that I really don’t know much.</p>
<p>If in fact Ravi and Wei recorded and broadcast any activity at all of Tyler in the privacy of his own room, their act is imo despicable. But depending upon a whole lot of other factors, their legal and moral culpability with regard to Tyler’s suicide really remains to be seen.</p>
<p>I just became aware that there is another thread on this topic, called “Bad solution to roommate sexile situation,” on the Parents Forum.</p>
<p>Below are excerpts from some interesting posts from that other thread: </p>
<p>“I am at work (student health large public U) now, and we have been discussing this tragedy all morning. There is a clear divide between the adults and the students (work-study, pre pharm, pre nursing, pre vet, pre med volunteers, and student interns); in how we view the victim and the actions of the perpetrators.” (Post 118)</p>
<p>Elaborating on the above:
“They also dont believe the perpetrators did what they did because of homophobic. They just dont believe anyone under age 25 or 30 could possibly care about sexual orientation.”
(Post 121)</p>
<p>By a different poster:
“Clementi may not have been out to his parents, but he wasn’t anything like closeted, either. What’s more, I wonder why people assume he would have expected a bad reaction from them if he came out to them. That’s a pretty unusual event these days in New Jersey, outside of a few fundamentalist churches.” (Post 154)</p>
<p>I think that these posts indicate that certain groups of people, from certain educational and/or social backgrounds, really do not care very much about sexual orientation…and conceivably are not aware of how much intolerance exists outside of their own milieux.</p>
<p>My gut feeling is that Ravi grew up among people like this and basically shares their views, as shocking and illegal as his actions have been. He could have reacted childishly and uncomfortably to “a guy kissing a guy” without being someone who actively hates and fears homosexuals. Please understand that I am not defending his actions. I just think his cruel, criminal invasion of Tyler’s privacy may not actually have been related to prejudice against gays.</p>
<p>The other side of the coin is that Tyler might very well never have committed suicide if he had not been gay. It is almost impossible not to see a connection there. I agree that it is very important to try to understand exactly what drove Tyler to do what he did, if possible, in the interest of protecting others like him in the future.</p>
<p>Things we do know about the incident</p>
<p>Ravi
by pre-meditated plan
and with the help and/or acquiescence of Molly
surreptitiously streamed video from a camera
located in the dorm room he shared with the Tyler
at a time he knew his roomie was in residence
and had requested privacy for a limited period of time
without the knowledge or permission of Tyler.</p>
<p>And then, most morally damning IMO, he attempted to stream video again.</p>
<p>^^^Curmdgeon, ABSOLUTELY, and let me re-iterate, I find those actions in and of themselves to be despicable and morally reprehensible.</p>
<p>jonri, I was alluding to the possibility that streaming that images over the internet makes it possible to apply some federal laws, not just NJ state laws. Pure speculation on my part. Just thinking there may be some other ways to hit the offenders.</p>
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<p>Yeah. That’s all I needed, too. The rest of the speculation will likely remain speculation. For some time. Maybe forever. </p>
<p>As some of the speculation might lead to a dialogue on some very important issues , it could be good. The part of the speculation that leads to rancor and argument , clouds the original invasion of privacy issues, and serves to divide rather than unite us in our condemnation of what we do know? Maybe not so much.</p>
<p>It is plausible that those out of state saw the video or at least that was Ravi’s intentions because most kids who have twitter accounts have friends in many states at many colleges (if college age) and so Ravi invited them to come watch at a certain time that night. Even if he was unsuccessful on the second taping attempt, it would have otherwise gone online to anyone who knew Ravi through twitter (and in fact, you can see twitter posts even if not a member of twitter) and went to the IChat he set up to view the “tryst” he was intending to tape. </p>
<p>Someone asked how Ravi knew his future roomie was gay before arriving a school. I am sorry to not provide a link but I recall a news story that said that Ravi discovered his future roomie was gay having read his future roomie’s online posts (either on a gay message board or maybe it was facebook), but not that Tyler contacted him to tell him directly.</p>
<p>Curm, agree that the invasion of privacy is paramount and the issue in and of itself and nobody will ever know what drove Tyler to suicide.</p>