<p>A-mama- I think you make an excellent point. </p>
<p>Where was the outrage on twitter when Ravi did this? </p>
<p>Where were the people when Kitty Genovese was raped and murdered in their hearing? </p>
<p>Although that is a very old case- I think the psychology of it still has merit.</p>
<p>Several pages back someone pointed out that it was reported that the taping was called into the police.</p>
<p>Here it is:</p>
<p>“An investigation began after someone alerted the campus police that the camera had been placed in the student’s dorm room without permission, said Middlesex County Prosecutor Bruce Kaplan.
The tip led to the arrest of Wei and Ravi.”</p>
<p>from:
[2</a> charged with taping Rutgers student having sex - NYPOST.com](<a href=“http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/charged_with_taping_rutgers_student_9G3XCTxdLoZ3VPJNyk8spO]2”>http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/charged_with_taping_rutgers_student_9G3XCTxdLoZ3VPJNyk8spO)</p>
<p>It’s possible that not only the person who called campus police but many were outraged. I would hope so…expect so.</p>
<p>In regards to my last post, if you knowingly allow someone to photograph you having sex or in the nude, and the photos get out, I would think you would be MORE ashamed, than if the photos were taken without your consent. After all, you allowed it to happen. </p>
<p>And I don’t defend these kids in the least, but I don’t think they could have foreseen that he would commit suicide. It’s almost commonplace that sex tapes become public now, Kim Kardashian, Paris Hilton, Duchess Fergie with another man. They sort of laugh it off and use it as another step in becoming more famous. With that as many kids mindset, I think some kids would think that a sex tape would be laughed off, become sort of a badge of honor, something cool.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>That really doesn’t make sense to me. One might certainly be embarrassed and feel betrayed. Being filmed without one’s knowledge and consent gets into a whole other ballpark. Perhaps that’s why it is completely illegal regardless of the age of the subject.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Again, this is NOT the same thing. All those you named consented to be filmed.</p>
<p>Donna, perhaps you should use a tool called Google before you accuse someone of being misinformed. Why anyone outside of Iran would try to deny the horrible actions of the brutal Iranian government is beyond me. </p>
<p>Last year HBO featured a depressing documentary on the subject. Below is a link to the actual documentary website andarticle about the documentary. It was a winner at the Sundance Film Festival.</p>
<p>[Be</a> Like Others](<a href=“http://www.belikeothers.com/]Be”>http://www.belikeothers.com/)</p>
<p>[Review</a> of the HBO documentary ?Be Like Others.?](<a href=“Slate Magazine - Politics, Business, Technology, and the Arts”>Slate Magazine - Politics, Business, Technology, and the Arts)</p>
<p>No one is ‘forced’ physically at gunpoint to undergo this operation. But the mental and emotional coercion is overwhelming. The alternatives are live a life of fear in the closet, live a lie, or live openly and risk death if they are discovered. Thus they are forced by lack of choice and freedom into desperate measures.</p>
<p>Lastly, Donna, I will grant you the point that homophobics have it better here than Iran but that was not exactly my point. My point was that homosexuals are worse off in Iran than here. When you have that level of institutionalized social, government, and religious hatred of a group of people then it’s very hard to overcome it in a matter of a few years living outside those borders.</p>
<p>Sorry if this seems off topic but IF cultural biases or differences have played a part in this situation then understanding just how deep those differences can be is helpful in seeing how.</p>
<p>Donna, your posts are, as usual, heartfelt and moving, and educational. My impression is that the trans community is much, much smaller than the gay population, therefore few of us know anyone who is transexual, while most of us know a number of gay people. Thank you for all you do to help us understand.</p>
<p>A-mama, very good point, and it goes along with what I have been thinking. Of course, most of my thoughts are for Tyler and his family and friends, but I also started thinking about what it must be like to go to college and find groups of people like the ones who taped and watched the encounter. How demoralizing it must be to live in that atmosphere! I’m sure that many kids who watched the video were uncomfortable, but reluctant to go against the herd mentality.</p>
<p>Just wanted to chime in and agree that homophobia is alive and well in this country among people of all ages, all religions, ethnicities and political groups. Even in NYC, I might add. Not to mention, in my own family.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I don’t know if there was or wasn’t, but I would really like to know what they thought. We parents can moralize and judge all we want, but we need to know what these kids are really thinking.</p>
<p>Denise, perhaps you should try to find out what my background is before suggesting that Google should be my source of information on LGBT issues. As it happens, I’m reasonably familiar on a personal level with most such issues, given that my son and I, together, cover at least three of the four letters in that particular alphabet soup – namely, G, T, and either L or B depending on how I feel on any given day!</p>
<p>I have <em>not</em> in any way tried to dismiss or downplay how horrible the situation is for gay people in Iran. What I did object to, most of all, was your introduction of the subject into this thread in the first place. (Unless I’ve missed something, neither Darun Ravi nor Molly Wei is Iranian. And I believe Ravi’s family is Hindu, not Muslim. So Iran has nothing to do with this.)</p>
<p>What I secondarily object to is your reliance on a documentary film made by a woman who’s very obviously and entirely ignorant of trans people and trans issues, a film that’s been publicized by a particular segment of the gay community that has issues with trans people and an agenda to pursue (not to get into the endless internecine squabbles between and within the different LGBT communities!) – and I don’t care how many awards it’s won – in order to make ludicrous assertions about there being some major issue in Iran with gay men being forced to have what you refer to as “sex change surgery.” (By the way, that’s a term nobody who actually knows anything about the subject has used in 20 years; it’s exclusively found in the kind of sensationalistic media reports from which you apparently derive all your information). </p>
<p>Have you ever actually spoken to any LGBT person who’s been in Iran? I have. Iran is full of gay men who remain men and have no intention of ever changing that fact; there is, in fact, a rather thriving gay underground in Teheran despite all the oppression. One would assume that there are at least several million gay and lesbian people in Iran, given the population of 75 million. 40 or so trans surgeries a year, some 400 in a decade, obviously does not constitute the destruction of a generation of gay men, even if one made the false assumption that everyone who has had such surgery actually identified as a gay man rather than a trans woman. (Yes, Virginia, there really, truly are trans women – and trans men – in Iran. Even if the maker of that particular documentary fails to acknowledge that fact.) In other words, to raise this issue does constitute the presentation of misinformation, which has been publicized way more than it warrants in the last few years (by people who, I suspect, want to push the idea that trans people are better off than gay people not only in Iran but here. Which is pointless to argue about. We don’t need to fight over who has the bottom rung of the ladder; we don’t need to engage in the Oppression Olympics.)</p>
<p>There is a sea of ignorance and misinformation about trans people out there, and, unfortunately, that’s true among gays and lesbians as much as anyone – although I do think people of my son’s generation, whether gay or straight, are generally far more understanding of trans issues (or, at least, more willing to learn and be accepting) than their elders. By the way, I have, so far, stayed out of the thread on the trans guy who was elected homecoming king, because I’m really not in the mood right now to deal with some of the extraordinarily clueless and offensive things being said in that thread. It can get exhausting to try to explain the same things over and over again. Not to mention personally upsetting. And not to mention that I’m always reluctant to put myself in a position where people might think I’m trying to represent or speak for “The Trans Community.” I’m not, and don’t want to. So I’ll shut up now, and hope that people return to the actual subject of this thread!</p>
<p>Donna, I know you know I mean this in light heartedness, but I had to giggle at you googling what LBGT meant. It was kind of comical since I have known you for 2 yrs, and you handle that so much better than I would have if I was in your shoes.</p>
<p>Sorry,
But I so firmly disagree with the notion that if you consent with a romantic partner to share intimate photos or videos as an act of trust and that partner turns around and betrays you by letting the stuff go viral, that is somehow a lesser offense than what happen to Tyler. It is deeply humiliating and women have committed suicide over this.</p>
<p>Yorkyfan, perhaps we can all agree that “lesser” and “greater” are not useful ways to describe the two offenses.</p>
<p>But they are different, and things that apply to one of the situations may not apply to the other.</p>
<p>^^^^^
Agreed. And I feel each violation of privacy deserves an individual response appropriate to all the facts.</p>
<p>^^^^And in this case, the perps can and will be held criminally accountable.</p>
<p>^^^^^^^
Yes, if they are found guilty.</p>
<p>An update article of interest:</p>
<p>[New</a> Jersey Prosecutor Mulls Whether to Upgrade Charges in Rutgers Alleged Sex Taping Case - FoxNews.com](<a href=“http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/09/30/decision-reached-upgrade-charges-rutgers-alleged-sex-taping-case/]New”>New Jersey Prosecutor Mulls Whether to Upgrade Charges in Rutgers Alleged Sex Taping Case | Fox News)</p>
<p>Another new article:</p>
<p>[Education</a> Officials ‘Silent’ Over Rash of Teen Suicides - FoxNews.com](<a href=“http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/10/05/education-officials-silent-rash-teen-suicides/]Education”>Education Officials 'Silent' Over Rash of Teen Suicides | Fox News)</p>
<p>My main reason for posting this one is that someone left a comment on it saying “No more gays!!! - no more suicide!” Intolerance of gay people is surely alive and well, unfortunately.</p>
<p>[Bullying</a> victim: ‘I believed that I did not deserve to live’ - CNN.com](<a href=“Bullying victim: 'I believed that I did not deserve to live' - CNN.com”>Bullying victim: 'I believed that I did not deserve to live' - CNN.com)</p>
<p>Anderson Cooper has been featuring the bullying problem on his show. Please go to the link and view the video: “Kids, My life as a bully’s victim”. It gives you just a sliver of insight as to what some kids have to deal with day in and day out. I’m not saying that this is what happened at Rutgers. I just felt it important for people to hear from kids how difficult it is to stay strong while being bullied day in and day out.</p>
<p>Donna, unless you consider the BBC, the Guardian, the UK Independent, etc. sensationalist then I’m not sure why you are assuming I’m getting my information from sensationalist sources. I’m not quoting the National Enquirer or People Magazine. I am choosing not to go into any further detail as far as additional sources of knowledge or information.</p>
<p>Suffice it to say that I’m pretty comfortable in my beliefs of what is happening there just as you are in minimizing it. The situation there is horrible for ALL people not just the LGBT community. I appreciate your opinion for what it is, your opinion. I’ll stick to worldwide news sources and other more personal avenues for news, thank you. I’ve provided links and sources to my information which you have dismissed as is your right. You have provided no such resources for your opinion.</p>
<p>And while this particular aspect of the issue (cultural influences) has strayed too far to remain useful, I remain curious to find out where and what cultural and childhood influences affected Ravi’s decision to videotape his gay roommate and if he would have done so had they been straight. Which I do not believe he would have streamed live because it lacked (in his mind) the shock and attention factor he so wanted to achieve.</p>
<p>Just saw a headline indicating Wei has Lawyered up. Expect everyone associated with Clementi’s suicide to try to wriggle out of any responsibility for it. I remain horrified at the actions and intent of Ravi and Wei.</p>
<p>^^^^^^I would expect anyone accused of a criminal offense to “lawyer up.”</p>