<p>When my FIL died, my MIL was shocked to find out that he didn’t have a survivor benefit for her. She must have had to sign off on something, but with a third-grade education (she immigrated from Italy), she was not competent to do so.</p>
<p>After he died, she ended up moving in her older son, who was a loser. Using her social security income, he managed to buy a house and bled her dry. At the end of her life she wasn’t even able to pay the co-payments for her chemotherapy appointments.</p>
<p>When she died, she left no life insurance of her own, but very detailed instructions for the lavish wake, funeral and repast she expected. It cost us a fortune.</p>
<p>My husband and I have everything spelled out and nailed down.</p>
<p>My friend was shocked that there are no survivor benefit. I will suggest to her that she ask them for a notorized statement that she waived survivor benefits. She could REALLY use them.</p>
<p>She is starting to pick through the piles of docs and has paid off the IRS by taking out a loan. She is also paying off his credit cards. He does have children from his 1st marriage (1st wife died before he met my friend). They also have a S, that they raised & help financially as needed. Will try to bring up some of your excellent suggestions. For federal & many pensions, there is NO option for survivors to have more than 55% or so of the benefit they had when retired employee was alive. It’s still WAY better than no payout.</p>
<p>We have been forced to confront our resources when we were trying to figure out whether we could afford to help our kids go to expensive private Us & help them as needed if their health wouldn’t allow them to get full-time careers. That helped confirm that financially we are in pretty good shape and had us reviewing benefits that we qualify for, so we hope not to have any surprises like my friend.</p>
<p>Friend is in public health & let her RN license lapse long, long ago. She does have a MPH & is working full-time, but doesn’t make nearly enough to cover current expenses, even without he H alive. She will have to make MAJOR life changes and is thinking/talking about taking on a part-time job in addition to her full-time job.</p>
<p>My husband is retired military and I know that we did not pay the premiums for me to get survivor benefits; we were advised to take what it would cost and put it toward life insurance. BUT I know this. This thread should be a reminder to look at the details for retirement and survivor plans. It stinks when people are surprised by what is not there.</p>
<p>HI Mom–if the H took out the CC’s and loan without her as a co-borrower, she may be exempt from paying them back. She may want to consult an attorney.</p>
<p>MDMom–great example of when it is a good idea not to take the survivor benefits, if you qualify for enough life insurance.</p>
<p>But if you do choose the life insurance option, go for the to age 100 plan not the term insurance I have seen some people choose. The decision should be if the benefit is $x more, can I get the lifetime life insurance for less than the increase in pension benefit amount.</p>
<p>MDMom, just make sure you’ll be covered for health insurance, my Mom thought she’d still have the State Dept health plan (which is very good) and she didn’t. All the money they saved probably went down the tubes with the gap plan before Medicare kicked in.</p>
<p>Himoom, PLEASE – if the IRS money was a lot, she needs to consider the innocent spouse rule. If HER income had sufficient withholding, she may be able to disclaim back taxes. I know she is beside herself, but she needs to stop paying things without considering all options. Ditto for the credit cards. If estate has no funds, any that were only in his name, tell them to go take a hike.</p>
<p>If she paid the IRS money recently, she may be able to file for refund.</p>
<p>The lady in question needs expert professional advice. “Assuming” she needs to repay all these debts is about as logical as “assuming” her husband was being responsible with the couple’s finances.</p>
<p>This lady needs to find out if her H somehow was able to forge documents that waived her survivor benefits. Is she a second wife? If so, did he marry her after he retired, if so that may be the problem. Did a first wife get those benefits? </p>
<p>It’s very sad to hear of these situations. I worked with a guy whose MIL had to live with them because her H convinced her to sign the papers to waive survivor benefits so that they would have a greater cash flow…sad thing is that he suddenly died a few months later!</p>
<p>Mom2, I think the first wife was dead. I am not clear if Wife#1 could will payments to her kids. But yes, we all agree that the first step is to write a letter to the trustee of hte pension plan for copies of any documents relating to her benefits. Its possible that he retired from the job paying the benefits before he married, started taking benefits, and went on to another job. But I agree she must follow up.</p>
<p>I had an older friend who agreed to waive pension, but her H did take out insurance, and she had SS and paid up condo.</p>
<p>As a general rule, the actuaries have worked it out, and, on average, the payment for 100%/no survivor, 75%/25%, and 50/50, are the same. If he lived into his 80s, and she is in her early 60s, given that he outlived his expectancy, they likely did MUCH better as a result of the decision to go 100/0. What they did with the money is another matter.</p>
<p>He was still working while they were married; 1st wife DID die. She took out a loan to pay off taxes because they kept hounding her. She is or has already paid off all his debts and has NO savings (had to purchase a $1000+ computer on installment because she was still paying his hospital bills which she just finished paying off).</p>
<p>She has an appointment with an attorney. I asked her to get a quote from him BEFORE he performs any services so she’s not shocked by the bill. I suggested she may wish to get several quotes from recommended attorneys so she can consider her options. Will be seeing her in another hour or so.</p>
<p>Given the age difference, there may not have been an option for a survivor benefit. Some plans don’t allow that option if there is more than a 15 year age span. It’s also very possible he signed documents before they were married (between marriages). It may not have been an illegal action that led to this situation.</p>
<p>It is a recurring theme that spouses/parents may begin to make questionable financial decisions as they age. From personal observation, the person with diminished capacity rarely acknowledges they have a problem. What can be done to wrest control of their finances from them, short of a forced evaluation and decision by a judge? It’s hard to imagine a relationship surviving such a “hostile” takeover, as it is perceived by the person holding the assets. One post mentioned that mail was rerouted to a PO box, was this after obtaining power of attorney or other official action?</p>
<p>Have friends in this same situation (although he is in his late 70s and his wife is in her early 60s). The discount in cash flow if you have survivor benefits can be substantial when you have a much younger spouse. They decided to go for more cash flow now.</p>
<p>It is really scary to think about the damage which can be wrought be a person who is declining mentally and yet not yet bad off enough to have any sort of intervention be successful.</p>
<p>Momsquad–having an outside source to monitor your accounts is a good idea (a financial planner, an estate planning attorney, a trustee if you have a trust set up, etc.). There are a lot of easy ways to avoid this situation however, we are ingrained to think people like financial planners or attorney’s are crooks. Yes, some are but MOST are not. I would investigate something along these lines to protect yourself.</p>
<p>I also hope that since the current “aging” generation, i.e. US, is more open with their children about finances than our parents were, they would be more open to having their children help monitor these things as they get older. It’s worth the time and money to sit down with a good financial planner and estate planning attorney (at the same time even) and figure out what is best for your situation. Heck, even having a bookkeeper pay your bills for you can head off some of this.</p>