Sad to say I have given up

<p>I just found this thread, and I have read every post. I am overwhelmed.</p>

<p>First of all, Momma, I will keep you and your family in my prayers. My own family has had its share of issues related to mental illness, and I know how incredibly difficult it can be. My oldest brother is a shell of a man who is held hostage by his depression and compulsions. Several years ago, he hit rock bottom & was institutionalized. He was put on meds & got therapy … but I suspect that he was unable to face the mess his life was, and he simply did not have the strength to do the work required to put it back together (he was ALWAYS different). He stopped the meds, stopped the therapy. For quite some time, he lived in his car (even though he had a place to live). We didn’t think we’d ever see him again. He is back in our lives, but only sometimes. Although he lives 10 minutes away, he did not come to any of our holiday gatherings. We only hear from him sometimes. When my mom was dying, she told the medical staff that she didn’t want to die before he got there … fortunately, he was able to make it & to spend time with her; that meant so much to her. My dad is broken-hearted about his oldest son, and he sometimes brings up things he did or didn’t do … but these things are not the fault of the parent. They are not the fault of anyone. We never had the outbursts with him; he hurts only himself. However, in hurting himself, he hurts everyone who loves him. It is so hard. But what you are going through, Momma, is so much harder in that there is so much collateral damage. Your D is not just hurting herself, but she took down the whole family on her way to the bottom. You are right in trying to put your life back together. You will always have a HUGE hole in your heart as you recall what was … what could have been … and the sadness that “is.” It will never completely heal, but with work you can get to a point where you can once again experience happiness with your family, even if it is without your beloved D. Hopefully, the day will come when your D can once again be a part of your family, even if in a small way. It might not happen, but it could. In the meantime, it is definitely time to pick up the pieces and move forward with your life.</p>

<p>Thank you to all the others who have shared their thoughts and experiences. It is difficult to share this sort of thing, but it is so very helpful in terms of educating others. There is so much strength displayed on this thread.</p>

<p>I am sorry I missed that BPDgirl… I guess I missed your age because you seem so insightful for a young woman in her early twenties. My daughter is not much younger than you but because you are doing so well, and you are introspective, you sound far more mature than my daughter even when she is in a functioning state. You are bringing so much to this thread and your journey to wellness is one of hope.</p>

<p>Thank you BPDgirl for sharing so much of yourself with us. It is helpful and provides someone going through this with a loved one much needed hope. My daughter has just recently started DBT and has yet to start the group piece so I am trying to remain hopeful. It can be very difficult during the lows and many of momma-three’s comments about her daughter’ s behavior deeply resonate with me. I do not know if my daughter is ready to dedicate the time and energy required to get better. My daughter also seems immature for her age and blames everyone else for her unhappiness. I pray that some day she will come to the same place of strength and determination to get better that you have shown.</p>

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<p>I always was a particularly sad and yet also sneaky child. I felt that by doing things I wasn’t supposed to, I was merely righting the wrong of people’s arbitrary rules. I seemed, however, quite the ideal daughter. I did well in school, I never misbehaved in any way that ended with me getting caught, and I was bright. Also, despite the fact that I didn’t believe the rules were truly meant for me, I was quite kind. I remember when I was five, a little girl I knew saw a new present my mom had bought for me. Her mom never bought her new things, so I gave her one of my toys. I was prone to bursting into tears when I contemplated the pain of others because I felt it very acutely. Even now I cry a bit whenever I hear anything sad.</p>

<p>As far as being a sad child, I would say I always experienced what is called dysphoria, one of the symptoms of borderline. I remember feeling it from my earliest memories. It is not simply sadness or anxiety though. It has always been, for me, more of a feeling of something gnawing on my soul or whatever you want to call the inner thing that a person is. It is somewhat akin to a situation where there’s something you really really need to get done, but you simply can’t remember what it is, and it eats away at you until you remember. But there was nothing to remember. The feeling was just there.</p>

<p>As a teenager is when things really took a turn though. I started engaging in outright dangerous or odd behaviors. When I was thirteen, I found out a family friend had been molesting his little sister. My mom had gotten a call from someone who knew this, and she then told me. She went to bed crying shortly after. I, meanwhile, felt completely numb. A few minutes after she went to bed, I put on sneakers (aside from that I was wearing pajama shorts and a t-shirt) and went out in the snow. I walked over to a park nearby and simply wandered around it for several hours like that. I don’t think I thought about anything much. Eventually I went home around 2 in the morning. </p>

<p>When I was fifteen, I started cutting myself. When I was sixteen, I slept with that BPD guy, who was 24. A few months later I got involved with a married man, though we never had sex. The list goes on and on. </p>

<p>I felt for many years, until recently, that I had no center. No solid Me. That I was really a bundle of various unreliable traits that could change at the drop of a hat. I switched religious beliefs a lot. I did various activities and tried to make the activities my identities. I did some good things as part of that, too. I did serious volunteer work with one organization for about two years because that made me feel like I was a particular sort of person.</p>

<p>I don’t remember when I started feeling unpresent, as if the world was a movie I was watching. It’s like there’s a thin film between you and the rest of existence. There were many moments in which I felt as though my actions were happening TO me rather than being done BY me. When I would start sobbing uncontrollably and yelling and storm off and start cutting myself, it seemed as inevitable as gravity, and yet afterwards I always felt very confused as to how it had happened.</p>

<p>I had a severe sense of abandonment starting from a young age. For various reasons, starting at around 9, I lived with a lot of different people who seemed to promptly forget about me as soon as I didn’t live with them anymore. Maybe that contributed. Anyway, by the time I was fifteen it was at the OH MY GOD I SHOULD DIE level if someone wasn’t into me anymore. I would leave dozens and dozens of messages on their phones and so forth. </p>

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Late adolescence and early twenties is definitely a time when mental illness tends to really grasp people. Maybe it was the upheaval that really did her in.</p>

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<p>I don’t know if this makes it better or worse, but it’s possible she believes some or all of what she is saying. It could be outright delusional psychosis, or it could be that interprets things in the most sensitive manner possible. I don’t know what the situation of her leaving was, but I can imagine someone with borderline interpreting, say, “You are not behaving the way you should in this house, maybe it would be best if you found your own place,” as “I HATE YOU, GET OUT, GET OUT!”</p>

<p>I am a genius at interpreting perfectly harmless things in the worst way possible. I am MUCH better about it now, but let me give you an example from my first semester of college. I got an A on my first major paper. At first I felt good… but then… I started wondering how many As the teacher had given. Was mine really that special? Probably not. She probably gave lots of As. And if she lined up all the A papers from favorite to least favorite – surely some As are better than other As – where would mine fall? Surely it would be her least favorite of all the papers she gave As. Anyway, I ended up a sobbing mess after this line of thought, feeling that the professor had hated my paper.</p>

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<p>I sought help in a completely inept way soon after I turned eighteen. I had previously always thought that that my issues were clearly caused by my mother, and then being under the thumb of whoever else I’d been living with. I thought when I was FREEEEE I’d feel fine. But I didn’t feel fine. And the fact that I didn’t suddenly feel fine made me feel even worse than before. The realization struck me that, though it was possible my mother had influenced my problems, they were now a part of me. And it blew my mind.</p>

<p>Oh. A note on manipulative behavior. (Yes, borderline behavior is manipulative. No, I don’t call people manipulative because that’s like saying you’re bad because you were mean to somebody. No, you’re good and bad. You did a good thing or a bad thing. You know?)</p>

<p>Here’s some of the most manipulative behavior EVER. Both my best friend who has borderline and I have self-harmed in front of people we love. Seems like we’re trying to upset them and get them to do what we want, right? Nope. We both agree we did it because we hurt SO MUCH that we wanted to them understand even 1% of it and that was the only way we could imagine conveying it.</p>

<p>It is very wrong, and yet it’s also very sad – both for the person that is terrified to see their loved one self-destructing, and the one self-destructing.</p>

<p>Mild correction: Lamictal is an anticonvulsant that happens to be used as well as a mood stabilizer. Its not the other way around. The reason I bring this up is to reiterate that yes, anticonvulsants have been used as off label meds for impulse control/behavioral dysregulation for a while.</p>

<p>jym, thanks for correcting me. I knew it was first used as an anticonvulsant, but I didn’t realize it’s off-label as a mood stabilizer. I thought by now that was not off-label?</p>

<p>Anyway, it works very well for me. The other day I forgot to take it for a day (well, I forgot to go pick it up at the pharmacy), and I was depressed for three days because of that. Even the light looked grey.</p>

<p>Pro football player has BPD:
<a href=“http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miami-dolphins/fl-brandon-marshall-borderline-person20110730,0,3435299.story[/url]”>http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miami-dolphins/fl-brandon-marshall-borderline-person20110730,0,3435299.story&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>[Brandon</a> Marshall on diagnosis: ‘I’ll be the face of BPD’ - Shutdown Corner - NFLBlog - Yahoo! Sports](<a href=“NFL National Football League News, Expert Analysis, Rumors, Live Updates, & more - Yahoo Sports”>NFL National Football League News, Expert Analysis, Rumors, Live Updates, & more - Yahoo Sports)</p>

<p>BPDgirl,</p>

<p>I believe Lamictal and some other anticonvulsants (eg depakote) have been FDA approved for treatment of Bipolar disorder. Bipolar disorder had become a popular diagnosis, and many mood dysregulations have been couched under this diagnosis. The mood dysregulation of BPD (borderline) is similar to that of the other BPD (bipolar) and responds to the mood stabilizers. </p>

<p>As you have emphasized, it is a combination of the pharmacological and therapeutic interventions that works best, in concert. Best of luck to you.</p>

<p>BPDgirl, you are amazing. Thank you so much for explaining how you feel/have felt. Your posts are so enlightening.</p>

<p>twomules - thanks for providing the link to those stories. Am so glad to read about a professional athlete willing to take responsibility for their weaknesses and work so hard at fixing them. There is still so much shame attached to mental illness and it will take a lot of people with easy access to the media, like Brandon Marshall to tackle this stigma (no pun intended!).</p>

<p>I would be thrilled if my daughter could or would accept responsibility for her actions in the future but I honestly don’t think I would ever really feel like she could be in my life anymore in the same way that my other kids are. It would take alot for me to believe it was not an attempt to draw us back in just to create the chaos that she has brought to all of us. I am worried like crazy about her and still not able to sleep because she is now out there somewhere and I have no idea how she is living. I am still walking around in a fog but I don’t have the police here and I am not worried about our safety or if she will burn our house down. I think she understands that coming near the family would mean the police would take her into custody. Right now that is the only peace there is. Now our daughter is surviving is only something she could answer but based off of past experience I am sure she has found somebody to mooch off of until she no longer needs or likes that person. The sad thing is she will leave a trail of people behind her that won’t have a clue who she really is. She fooled alot of people for a long time including a long term boyfriend. He got smart and grew up and now that young man has a chance of actually finding a healthy relationship with someone. My daughter is nothing like BPgirl and is not capable of looking within and seeing any fault with herself. She really thinks that people should not expect anything from her and be happy just to be around her for whatever amount of time she decides to put into it. That goes for all people…family…friends…girls… and guys. She will use anyone and she doesn’t care how.</p>

<p>Momma-three,
I don’t have any words of wisdom for you. Nobody can know what it is like to walk in your shoes, not even the other people here who have this illness in their family. Because no two people are exactly the same. Just want you to know that I am thinking of you and if I could, I would pour you a virtual glass of wine and just sit and let you talk. Try to keep taking care of yourself. I know you can’t stop worrying about her but do something for yourself today and know that other people care.</p>

<p>Momma-three,
I am so sorry that things have turned out this way for you and your family. It sounds like you did everything you could (and more) to try to suppport your daughter and get her the help she needs. You can make every effort to understand the person and their illness, but in the end, you can’t sacrifice the entire family unit for one person. As the child of a person with BPD, only recently diagnosed, I can attest that the wounds that occurred through this relationship are long lasting and color every aspect of my life. I only wish she had chosen to get help like BPDgirl. Without a doubt, the final years of her life would be very different than they are playing out.
I will be thinking of your family in the coming weeks and hope that all of you begin to find some peace.</p>

<p>Momma-three- I continue to keep you and your family in my thoughts and prayers.</p>

<p>“My daughter is nothing like BPgirl and is not capable of looking within and seeing any fault with herself.” - Here’s to hoping that someday your D will make progress too.</p>

<p>People with BPD can be truly awful, but it’s possible BPD isn’t her right diagnosis if she doesn’t seem to feel any deep suffering (as opposed to anger and annoygance) about her situation. It could be some other personality disorder if that’s the case. </p>

<p>Obviously I haven’t the faintest clue since I don’t know her, but it’s just a thought. There are certain more difficult personality disorders that share BPD traits even while being wholly different beasts… women with worse traits than BPD could explain tend to still get the BPD diagnosis even while men might get less flattering ones.</p>

<p>ooh BPD Girl, that’s quite a can of worms you opened there :)</p>

<p>Since you brought it up, I have to wade in and ask how a parent would know if their child was deeply suffering…(it’s really a rhetorical question but i’m conscious that those parents among us who are desperately hoping it’s something else, not BPD, maybe something a nice pill could fix, might grab hold of your comment and run amok with it).</p>

<p>There be the danger when there is an illness that can’t be seen…no one knows what it’s like, it can’t be described, and with BPD, for those that suffer words can’t begin to convey their feelings, and for loved ones, we spend too much time listening to the words and believing them at face value rather than seeing they are just a vehicle for communicating a feeling for which we don’t have any context to understand.</p>

<p>Anyway, while i’m on the subject, BPD Girl have you ever seen the movie Mask, where there is a scene where the main character tries to explain colours to a blind girl. He uses temperature to convey colour. You have a great gift in your writing. Perhaps you could write a book, kind of like a translation guide for those that don’t speak the BPD language. I know your words have certainly helped me and others on this thread realise how much we don’t really know about what life is like with BPD. It’s a reminder I need, daily it seems.</p>

<p>OP, I recommend the book [Beautiful</a> Boy: A Father’s Journey Through His Son’s Addiction](<a href=“http://www.amazon.com/Beautiful-Boy-Fathers-Journey-Addiction/dp/0547203888/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1312411347&sr=1-1]Beautiful”>http://www.amazon.com/Beautiful-Boy-Fathers-Journey-Addiction/dp/0547203888/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1312411347&sr=1-1), by David Sheff. It’s a wonderfully written book that I would recommend to anyone, but I think it could be especially helpful to you. The author’s son was a meth addict. I realize your daughter does not have the same diagnosis, but it sounds as if what you are going through is very comparable to what the author of Beautiful Boy has been through. The book might give you some hope.</p>

<p>momma3 - for what its worth, i do think there is a way of supporting someone and having compassion for them even if they aren’t available to accept the support that the present time. I also think that there is a way to do that whilst still providing safety and some semblance of life for you and your other family members. I don’t think the two are mutually exclusive. Just as your daughter isn’t in a place right now where she can accept the support people are offering, and she isn’t in a place where she has the strength or the inclination to do what is necessary to change things in her life, it doesn’t mean she isn’t trying the best she can. I also have an inkling that you are finding yourself in the same spot. It sounds like you are also doing the best you can and you also don’t have the strength to make the changes or to accept the support that might be available.</p>

<p>It sounds to me as if right now, you can’t even contemplate what would need to happen to have it be ok for your daughter to be welcome back into your house. But eventually, you might be in a place, where that might be something that can be contemplated and that could be a starting place. You right now are spent. Done. Fried. Used up. I bet you feel like you’ve been put in the washing machine and spun. You’re frayed at the edges. (I also suspect this is a little bit like what your daugther’s life is like all the time, because I can’t imagine anyone choosing to live the life you’ve described how she lives.)</p>

<p>Anyway, I wanted you to consider that you leave the door open for your daughter. I know you say “she knows we love her” I’m telling you she doesn’t. But perhaps, you could simply let her know that you do love her and that you will always support her and at the same time you can’t be of much help to her in your current state of depletion and that the best way you know of supporting her right now is to let her live her life, respect the choices she is making, and have compassion for the pain you can see she is in. in the meantime you also need to live your life and take good care of yourself.</p>

<p>Disclaimer- some of these notes are just my way of reminding myself of this too, lest anyone think life is great and i’m some sort of compassionate budha 24/7. Wrongo. I too have my “well just let her try if she thinks she so smart let her do it herself moments” lots of them. even today in fact :)</p>