<p>Again the point is not what happened but what could have happend if you had the opportunity to send your kids to prep HS.
You think it won’t have any positive impact while I think it will always have a positive impact if the prep HS is a good fit.</p>
I agree with you there – that’s why I looked for schools that provided my kids with a nurturing environment for their social and emotional development, rather than pushing academics. I am fortunate that there were some alternatives to choose from in the local public schools, so that my kids could enjoy relaxed and happy childhoods, with plenty of time to explore other interests.</p>
<p>I think we are diverting from the topic at hand. I never said it is impossible to be a good student if you live in a subsidized housing or in a refugees family. The family might be a very educated back home and had to live on a subsidized housing because of their refugees status.
So there are tons of unknown and the point is not relevant to the discussion.</p>
<p>The point I put forward is very simple. There are lots of studies that indicate diminishing return of education with age.</p>
<p>A student who drop out of Grad school will not even feel the impact of it but a student who drop out of middle/High school will have real tough time with life.</p>
<p>Point was choice or the best fit HS for the kids have a positive impact on their outcomes. For you it’s the public school for us it was this prep HS.</p>
<p>I didn’t say if my kids had attended prep school that it would not have had a positive impact! I’m sure it would have! I’m sure the prep school would be a better fit at least for D1. D2 surely would have loved one of the boarding performing arts schools I bet out of state (our state doesn’t have performing arts high schools). But again, not only are there no private options in my region except academic sports academies, we could not afford it and also would never send our kids away to boarding school money aside. We wanted them to grow up at home and we feel they benefitted greatly from their upbringing here in VT, which is a great place to raise kids. In fact, at boarding school, some things would have been harder to do…such as all the specialized training my younger D got outside of our school setting. My kids were involved in various ECs that were not all connected to school. While they would have benefitted from a private high school and have had a positive experience, they still benefitted from our local schools and had very positive experiences growing up here between school and their EC endeavors, and their summer programs (which were out of state). Even if I had the money, I would not have sent my kids to boarding school. We like and value the experiences they had right here locally! We are happy they grew up here. Then, they left home to spread their wings and have had great experiences in college and beyond. So, yes, prep school can have a positive impact, no question, but their experiences growing up here also had a positive impact. And prep school was not an option and so it is a moot point in our situation geographically and economically. I also went to public school. I have nothing against private K-12 and I have nothing against public either. You come across as anti-public.</p>
<p>Well, now you are talking about high school drop outs. I was just talking of having positive experiences in public school which led to positive college admissions outcomes. </p>
<p>Many do not get to choose their K-12 schools. Public school is not damaging.</p>
Having followed Soozievt for many years on this forum, I find it hard to fathom how her kids could possibly have accomplished more or done better. </p>
<p>But I can imagine the converse: perhaps neither kid would have developed the level of self-confidence and independence they both exhibited if they had been educated in the more structured and rigidly controlled environment of a prep school. If memory serves me right, one of the d’s was an athlete whose college prospects may have been enhanced by her her skiing prowess. I wonder if the other daughter would have had the opportunities to develop her talent if limited during the school year to performing in school plays at a small private high school.</p>
<p>A lot of what you wrote, calmom is true. I will clarify one misconception, however. My D1 was not a recruited athlete at all. And in fact, she was at a disadvantage in that one sport (she was a three varsity sport athlete) because she did NOT attend a private ski academy as a great majority of kids did who went on to the college team (or else they went to prep schools). She was the only public school kid pretty much on the team. It is very hard to compete against the private ski academy kids!!! So, on that front, she was at a disadvantage but would never have wanted to attend a private ski academy as she cared about academics, other sports and performing arts and did not want to put her eggs in one sport basket. </p>
<p>What you say about D2 has truth to it because at boarding school, one would be limited to school shows and whatever classes or lessons the school provided, whereas my kid did that here but so much more outside the school setting. HOWEVER, this D was at a disadvantage in some ways for admissions to elite college programs in her field as she was up against kids who went to performing arts high schools (not talking regular prep school) and for example, our HS had no drama classes at all. Somehow she was able to compete in this highly selective process coming from nowhere so to speak.</p>
<p>PS, not only was D1 not a recruited athlete, but of the 8 colleges on her college list, only 2 had a varsity team in her winter sport, and the others only had a club team. Due to her passion for the sport, she just wanted to keep doing it in college, club or varsity. She found colleges that had something to offer but did not get recruited (to be a recruit, she’d either have had to gone to a ski academy private school or been competitive on the USSA circuit which is almost impossible in high school if not attending a full time ski academy school…it is nothing like her racing for our public school). This particular daughter actually goes against what many say on CC is needed to get into an elite college. She is the epitome of the well rounded type and NOT the well lopsided with a specialty talent. To be the best in a sport, for example, you have to specialize. She never wanted to. She liked everything…so her whole life she played three sports, studied two instruments, band, jazz band, took jazz, lyrical and tap dance, and was very active in creating policies for her school through governance. She also worked. She was never one to put her eggs in one basket. I know everyone tends to say here that well rounded isn’t good for college admissions to selective schools but she is an example of that very thing and even wrote her main essay on the attribute. It’s my other kid who gave up the well rounded stuff (was like sister for years) to specialize in just one area of passion…performing arts.</p>
<p>Not all cases are same and for soozievt children going to that public school might be the best fit.
The choice at a prep HS in bay area are unlimited, you are not restricted to performing just at small private high school but you may actually get to perform with local companies. The choices of activities and the individual attention is not possible at a public high school.
So if “soozievt” is living in bay area, the kids would have benefit from all those opportunities.
DD HS Conservatory was invited to perform at the 2007 Fringe Festival in August of that year, taking that year’s spring show, Urinetown: The Musical to Edinburgh, Scotland.</p>
<p>POIH…that is true in certain locations. In fact, I worked this whole year with a girl who attends a very well regarded prep school in the Bay area with the same specialty as my daughter…musical theater. That girl is leads in her school shows and so on but has a lot of training at great places in the Bay area and is in performance endeavors outside of school too.</p>
<p>My kids’ school is relatively small for a public school. I work with kids in other states who go to huge public schools. I see videos of their school shows and tons of kids are in them. Leads have to be a senior, or some such. At our high school, my younger D was a lead every year starting in 7th grade, even though she was still in MS (they allowed a MS student to try out for HS productions as the MS and HS are at one facility even though the MS has their own shows). I don’t know that such a thing would have happened at a large public or even at a prep school. And of course, she trained in various arts outside of our HS and was in productions in our region though the opportunities are much less than in a larger area. My kid also performed professionally around the country, including in the Bay Area once with the San Jose Symphony. She even performed professionally at the Kennedy Center when she was 13. Her experiences, or that of my other D, were not limited solely to what the school provided.</p>
<p>I live in the bay area and am very glad I chose public schools. My d was also invited to perform internationally in high school – those opportunities are not limited to private schools. In fact, I don’t think a private school would have been considered for the opportunity my d. had, for political reasons. (The trip was at the invitation of a foreign government, so it probably would have been considered bad form to send a “private” group rather than students from a public school.)</p>
<p>It seems to me that a lot of people labor under some misconceptions about public schools and the opportunities they offer to their students. My son also had an opportunity during college extended only to students attending public universities that was far and above anything he could ever have contemplated at a private school. Public schools have their problems, but there are also a lot of very dedicated teachers, and many opportunities extended from the local community which simply wouldn’t be there for private schools, because the private academies aren’t perceived as being as much in need. For example, again and again over the years, local corporations made significant donations of equipment and training to the public schools my kid attended - things like computers, science lab equipment, etc.</p>
<p>POIH, I think we have a difference in outlook, having read your posts over the years. For example, you are a “parent of an Ivy Hopeful” and you said your D was aiming for HYPSM (not in that order, I know). My kids did not care if they went to an Ivy and just wanted to go to a really good school that was challenging at their level and met their various college selection criteria. We feel that there is a wider number of really great colleges beyond HYPSM (my kids never even heard of those initials in fact). D2 would never consider any Ivies as none of them offered a BFA in musical theater, her aim. D1 had some Ivies on her list but some she wasn’t interested in as they did not meet her selection criteria.</p>
<p>With K-12, we did not choose our schools and the kids had to attend the only option available. But again, I do believe you can get a very good K-12 education at many schools and not just at elite prep schools. We feel good about our kids’ formative years including their education (even if not an ideal school) and all the other endeavors they were involved with outside of school and in summers, and simply growing up in rural Vermont. The more I read of the competitive atmosphere at some people’s high schools elsehwere and the pressures to get into this or that college, the race for val, etc. etc., I am so glad my kids had a totally different experience K-12, even if in the end they still landed at top schools or programs. One of my kids was val but there was no race or gaming or talk with others about vals. She just was it due to her GPA and it only became known in mid senior year as the val gives the speech at graduation but otherwise, nobody cares here. Nobody talks of their SAT scores, their college lists, etc.</p>
<p>I see a few “problems” that are leading this discussion to chaos. First, very few people who have had true prep school experience are involved in the discussion, so mostly they are talking about things they have read, heard of or simply imagined; Second, people who have limited private school experience are lumping their small 200 student local day schools with the top boarding schools like the ones with 500+ acare campus and 1000+ students; Third, some people share their experience decades ago as if it’s still the same today while the top prep schools have gone through so much change for the past few decades just like the prestigious colleges have; Fourth, similarly there are huge varieties of public schools. When they are lumped together as one entity, you can surely expect the discussion is going nowhere. Fifth, nychomie, the major player in this discussion seems to be a graduate of a top boarding school. If so what is she comparing her school with? An average public school or the best of the best? </p>
<p>Let’s be fair. There are successes and failures in both public schools and prep schools. Percentage wise, the success rate in prep schools is likely to be higher than that in public schools, but that could be because the prep schools especially the top ones are selective in admission (last year, Phillips Academy’s admit rate was 14% with a yield of 78%). The strengths of schools like Phillips Academy are obvious. They have state-of-the art facilities, 70%+ faculty members with advaced degree, and an overall very strong peer group like no other. However, contrary to the myth of “more structured and rigidly controlled environment of a prep school”, the school gives the students too much freedom and “chances to make mistake” that parents of many of these supposedly more mature kids feel comfortable with. Their challenge is to navigate through their critical high school years “by themselves” and find their ways in a most rigorous and highly competitive environment. In this sense, I don’t think the success rate (say, we narrowly define “success” as getting into one of the top colleges) in top prep schools is as high as it should be, but I do believe most of them are better prepared for college and even beyond college. </p>
<p>As for the best public schools, they are highly competitive as well. Though the admission is not selective, the neighborhood they are located usually is an effective filter so that mostly only good students with the families that highly value edcuation stay. In general, it takes a lot of support (ranging from identify opportunities, drive kids to activities/events, help with their projects, monitor their schedules, manage their priorities, etc.) from the family for the public school stars to stand out. This is the major difference between public school stars and their counterparts in boarding schools. (And please again, we are talking about general trends and exceptions do occur. )</p>
<p>There is no good or bad. There is difference. Some kids are ready for boarding schools and many are not. Some can afford prep schools (or take advantage of their generous financial aid programs) and many cannot. We do our best and make the best out of what we have.</p>
<p>If the parents are wealthy enough and want to provide their kids with a great education in a supportive environment but are simply too busy (perhaps travel too much) to personally provide that support or if they cannot live in proximity to a good public school, then an elite prep boarding school makes a lot of sense.</p>
<p>soozievt - My kids were the same. Had no desire to even look at HYPSM. Those schools don’t offer the ENGR degree program my older son wanted (or the band experience), and they had no appeal to my younger son either (no cold weather places and no interest in California). </p>
<p>They have both chosen schools that beautifully meet all their selection criteria - from program availability to honors college/housing options to geographic considerations to personal interests. My older son is a deliriously happy college freshman, and I am confident that my younger son will feel the same way next year. </p>
<p>For K-12, my kids have experienced it all - from a private school in New Orleans, to public schools near Houston, to private international schools. They have been exposed to a variety of curricula and educational philosophies, have gone to school with a wide spectrum of people, have friends scattered all over the globe, and have taken away something positive from each and every situation. </p>
<p>Their last couple of years in a US public school have been interesting. There is a VERY intense, competitive atmosphere here - both in terms of academics and athletics. It’s a bit overwhelming if you let it get to you, but they refused to play the mind games and just focused on getting the best overall experience (academically, ECs, etc) possible for them. They did/will graduate with excellent academic credentials and having attained success/recognition in their chosen ECs. I couldn’t ask for anything more.</p>
<p>Agree with you, Benley as well. And so many factors play a part beyond which school you attend. You gave a good example in terms of kids who live at home and whether they have support from their parents including taking them to a myriad of activities. That was a BIG factor for my own children and an advantage they had over some peers at their school. My husband and I each put 100 miles per day on our cars. My kids had a parent who was available and not working full time to schlep them every afternoon, every night and every weekend all over the region to their activities. We only had two kids and so one parent might take one kid to X all day on Saturday and one might take the other kid to Y all day on Saturday (their many scheduled ECs) and I’m not sure what we would have done if we had more than two kids. But this is an example of how some kids have choices, opportunities, or advantages over other kids and it is not all about which high school they attend but many other aspects of their upbringing.</p>
<p>I cross posted with you Grcxx. Sounds like your kids have had a variety of educational experiences and in fact, you have a greater perspective having sent them to different sorts of schools over the years. I think when kids make the most of the opportunities given, they thrive wherever they are planted.</p>
<p>I admit that I am glad my kids did not attend K-12 schools with a competitive atmosphere. </p>
<p>My kids were very fortunate, in my view, to also go away every summer to programs in their interest areas they wanted to attend and broadened their experience beyond our local area and had different sets of friends in the summer. A lot of kids around here do not get to do that. </p>
<p>I’m glad your first son is loving his college and I must say, I feel as you, that that is the best and I couldn’t ask for anything more. I feel so grateful that my kids loved their colleges and made the most of the opportunities there. They had great experiences. When you find a great fit, it really is the best. We did not get to pick their high school, but they did fine but they had the luxury of going to private colleges and it has been worth every penny, though I’m gonna be paying it off for many years. :D</p>
<p>I have no GRE scores to report. I took the exam, finished with hours to spare, yet I did not receive a formal score report. Instead, I received the following (certified) letter from the ETS:</p>
<p>Dear Stats:</p>
<p>Please regard this letter as your score report. After a cursory review of your examination, we quickly realized that we are in no position to judge you or your work. As such we are unable to quantify your awesomeness. Suffice to say, it’s a ton…yada, yada, yada.</p>