<p>Actually she did not. We live on opposite coasts and we have never met. While my D is a soph in a BFA MT program, Soozie had nothing to do with her choices, and my daughter has never talked to her. However, in reading her posts, Soozie is right on the money in her advice and information. She is familiar with available scholarships, has many contacts in various programs, knows what schools have what strengths, etc. On the other hand you don’t seem to have any knowledge that you can present.</p>
<p>really? you think this is not true?</p>
<p>“ridiculous comments about California counties having larger populations than some states”</p>
<p>what’s vermont, something like half a million people? what’s orange county 3 to 4 million, LA county close to 10 mil</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Please cite your source for this ridiculous statement.</p>
<p>And actually, my D is pursuing her degree partially based on what “people who have actually done it” have advised. She has worked in a number of equity productions, and the majority of the actors she has worked with have degrees; some in theater or acting, some in other fields. I can’t say that a single one of them has ever said that their degree has hurt them in any way. Many of them are actors who are working routinely and who are known names. We have never taken the advice of any source without thoroughly researching it and deciding how it “fits”. My D had excellent grades and test scores in HS and could have chosen many different routes to doing what she loves. However, in the end, she chose MT and is completely happy with her choice. We have 2 older children; 1 an engineer, and the other a HS teacher. We researched their options just as thoroughly.</p>
<p>Obviously it is true that some CA counties are larger than some states- so what??? It doesn’t make us better or worse, and the comment makes you sound very “rural” and hickish!</p>
<p>take, I wish your child the best. acting is a great profession and theater performing is great as well, the right theaters can be great.</p>
<p>and I believe and i’ve said many times actors should get college educations!!</p>
<p>but somewhere along the line every college in this country, seemingly, popped up a theater arts program. And it seems like most parents and kids try to get into them without really stopping to consider how this professions works and how you can best learn it. I believe that unless you’re at one of the better programs in or near LA, NY (chicago and boston), you’re better off learning theater and/or acting at private classes, coaches, and trying to get paid acting work in NY or LA. AND get your college degree. But going to some school for acting like say Elon is probably not a very good use of your time and money. Go there for an education but not acting. And I’d apply that thinking to most colleges and universities.</p>
<p>Acting is a TRADE. you don’t go to a liberal arts college to learn to cook either:)</p>
<p>pacheight, golly gee, you big-city folk sure aren’t very good at defining simple words, and it sure as shootin looks like your computer machines don’t have the Caps Lock button. But by cracky, you’re awfully dad-blame good at avoiding questions. As fer as enrollments and populations, gosh, I would think y’all would know about the google machine by now. Goodnight, ■■■■■.</p>
<p>takeitallin – Thanks for sticking up for Sacramento. Your D sounds like she’s well on her way. Best of luck to her!</p>
<p>^^and that’s why I don’t live in Sacramento</p>
<p>Pacheight, what YOU consider “rural” does not make it so. Sacramento and Fresno are cities. I gave you a document from CA that lists its rural counties and gave you samples of school sizes from those counties. If in YOUR mind small cities and suburbs are rural, that’s nice but that is not what rural is defined as. I guess in your world, everyone else are hicks who do not live in or near a major city. Everyone else is “the rest.” :D</p>
<p>Most on this thread are not aware of your posts on the Theater/Drama Majors forum (though I think takeitallin reads/posts there…and no, I don’t know this person other than ON CC). I have restrained myself from replying to some of your posts over there where you advise students to go straight to NYC or LA to take classes and/or to learn acting “on the job” and not to go to college BFA in Acting (or MT) programs. People off the forum have brought up to me about your posts over there on that and are shaking their heads.</p>
<p>You do not ever give any indication of your profession or background in the performing arts industry. The reason this matters is to give some validity to your posts as you are advising impressionable young people what to do or not do who wish to pursue this field. They don’t know if you are Joe Shmoe, a doctor, lawyer, carpenter, producer, professional actor, filmmaker, choreographer, professor, funeral home director, or what. They can’t put any stock in your “advice” as they have no idea where you are coming from. For example, if I want to know more about the theater program at UCLA, and I read takeitallin’s posts, I know where she is coming from as she has a kid in the program. It lends some validity to reading her perspectives on that topic. Nobody is going to take the veracity of your posts about acting and so forth when they have no clue where you are coming from on an anonymous forum. On the one hand, you say nobody should listen to my advice about college admissions who are pursuing careers in acting or musical theater (or I think you are also saying for engineering, law, doctor, etc. too!) even though my field is college admissions and I have expertise in theater admissions…but these students and parents on the theater forums, etc. should listen to your advice…why? You go so far as to ask if CC’s forums should “sanction” someone like me giving advice! It’s a college admissions forum and anyone can give advice but surely someone who works with college admissions should be able to give advice. Should CC sanction that an anonymous person like yourself not be allowed to give advice? You DO give plenty of advice. </p>
<p>You keep undermining me and my profession (not to mention that I am a “bad parent” for sending my kids to rural public schools!). I have NEVER claimed to be a professional performing artist. Nope. All of my advisees who are pursuing degrees in theater or musical theater have an acting coach and a voice teacher/coach for their artistic preparation. Further, they talk with those in this field about the industry and career. I don’t replace ANY of that. I only help with college selection, admissions, and the overall audition process.</p>
<p>I also help kids pursuing many fields. I have a student who wants to be a math professor and one who wants to be a dentist and another who is going into recording arts and one going into opera, and another in engineering. Someone who advises on college admissions doesn’t have to be an engineer or dentist or psychologist or architect to guide a student in the college admissions process. A student going into these fields should ALSO talk to those who are in these professions to ask them about the profession and what not. I have a daughter in architecture and I helped guide her with her grad school process, but she surely talked with architects and had others look over her portfolio and so forth. One doesn’t replace the other. One person is helping with the admissions process and another shares about their profession. You have a D who is an athlete and so do I. She talks to people in her sport but also was helped with the other aspects of her admissions process by me. These are two different types of guidance. She’s even coaching an Ivy League team right now and she is not an expert on college admissions. I would have a student talk to her about the sport end of the process but not about admissions and applications, etc. </p>
<p>While not the topic of this thread…you have posted here what you have mentioned many times on the Theater forum and I haven’t responded much over there…but most would disagree with you about your contention to not go to college acting programs if pursuing acting. You also say not to go to a college outside of NYC or LA if going into these fields. You also bring up that you would not go study liberal arts if going into cooking…but you are also ignoring that many pursue professional acting or musical theater BFA degree programs which are NOT liberal arts degrees. I help many seeking such a path. These are training programs in acting and MT, not liberal arts study of theater. To tell, for example, a person pursuing MT to ONLY go to one of the schools in NYC or LA is inappropriate advice. If you knew anything about MT, you would know, for example, that some of the tippy top BFA in MT programs include U of Michigan, Cincinnati College Conservatory of Music, and Carnegie Mellon (among others). Top agents and casting directors attend the senior showcases from these programs and the majority of their graduates obtain representation. Many go onto professional work in the industry and at very high levels. My own kid did attend NYU/Tisch and while there were some advantages to being in NYC, such as all the networking she did, she did not HAVE to go to college in NYC. She did not audition for professional work while in college that would have taken her out of college. She pursued the degree and the training (yes, training!) first and then sought work and secured an agent right away through her senior showcase, and was cast in an Equity production (got her card) the day after graduation. She received GREAT training. But she has friends who went to other programs (not in NYC or LA) who received top notch training and who are working professionally since graduating. Open any Broadway Playbill and you will see graduates from many BFA programs outside of NYC or LA. And of course, some people who make it have no degree or have a BA degree or in an entirely other field. But the training in a BFA program can be excellent, on top of earning a college degree which is a good thing to have in life and in fact, acting is an unsteady profession. For example, my D is contracted by NYU/Tisch in a professional capacity, and having a degree allows her to be on staff in this capacity. Sure, someone can go to NYC or LA to take acting, singing, and dancing lessons. That is different than BFA conservatory type training, however. I believe, and my D believes, that an educated actor is important as she has more to draw upon with an educated mind as an actor. She know so many professional working actors and the majority all have degrees. I am not saying that a BFA program in Acting or MT is the ONLY path to success for someone in theater, but it is one very good path of many. You are saying it is a “damaging” path.A degree in Acting or Musical Theater is NOT damaging, as you assert. If it were, why are top agencies signing these graduates of BFA programs? Why are these graduates working on Broadway and in film? My D having gone to her college has led to so many opportunities since college that she would not have had if she had not attended.</p>
<p><<^^and that’s why I don’t live in Sacramento >></p>
<p>And I have a feeling the folks in Sacramento are very happy about that.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Pacheight missed the memo about Meryl Streep whose undergraduate degree came from Vassar College in Poughkeepsie, NY. It harmed her, I guess. </p>
<p>Excuse me; my phone is ringing. Perhaps it’s my son, a 27-y.o. working actor in NYC with only a B.A. and double major (Theater and Music) from Amherst College, a small LAC in far-away Western Massachusetts. I wonder if he’s going to tell me about his next part in his ambitious, successful theater troupe with its own resident playwright, that mounts 3 shows annually, conducts its own workshops and retreats, is a for-profit enterprise, yet pro bono workshops new American scripts in development so writers may see staged works before completion and away from critics. Tell me, is that the “right way” or the “wrong way” to participate in “the industry” of theater? You don’t know. Or maybe this phone call will be about another shoot he has in a film shot in NYC or LA. I never know until I hear from him what successful piece of NYC theater he’s involved with. He’s a complete free agent. Clearly he too was harmed by a B.A. when he simply arrived solo in NYC at graduation/age 21 ready to throw himself at the industry. Fact is, his intelligence, confidence, work ethic and resourcefulness from his development as an Amherst student (graduating cum laude because of a theater project senior year) was great preparation for his current work in NYC theater. Yes, he studied Meisner technique in a course at Amherst; are you saying that Meisner is better taught at NYC street address? That’s silly. Besides, his prof at Amherst studied WITH Meisner. </p>
<p>Then there’s my niece. She graduated from rural Ithaca College with a degree in MT, THEN went to NYC, had the benefit of an Ithaca college-based showcase in NYC. As I hear it, 5 agents ran up to her hoping to sign her up and she chose among them. She was next cast in a national tour of a children’s theater, and will gain her equity card that way. The reputation of Ithaca College’s MT/drama program is what brought the NYC agents to see the new graduates. NONE of them had trained in NYC but they were ready for it, and their association with that college program was a boost to them professionally.</p>
<p>How were these people harmed, in terms of acting training, by not receiving undergraduate educations right in NYC or LA?</p>
<p>pacheight: You’ve gotten some sleep. Maybe you’d care to try again:</p>
<ol>
<li> Define the simple word “rural.” Do not use the word itself or the term “rural attitude” in your definition.<br></li>
</ol>
<p>Extra credit: Explain how the definition applies to population centers of more than half a million.</p>
<ol>
<li> Post your theater CV. Until you do this, stop contradicting soozievt who clearly knows more about it than you do.</li>
</ol>
<p>Gotta say, coming late to this thread, the most parochial attitude herein is that of pacheight. Talk about unsophisticated (a synonym for rural, btw).</p>
<p>Just because you might live in Pacific Heights, in The City, doesn’t make you sophisticated or knowledgeable.</p>
<p>I’ve lived most of my life in major cities - Washington DC, Boston, NY, SF. And I’ve also lived in rural areas. Sacramento is a CITY, whether you like it or not. It doesn’t even come close to being rural.</p>
<p>I’m guessing you’re not very well-travelled, pacheight, or you did your travel with your eyes closed. Certainly you had your mind closed.</p>
<p>Me, I’d rather discuss this topic (or any) with someone with a rural background but a sophisticated and open mind, vs. someone who is so caught up in his own concept of city sophistication that he cannot appreciate that there are alternate valuable experiences. Rural attitude as a put down… say what?</p>
<p>No point in trying to educate this individual, folks. Not gonna happen.</p>
<p>He can’t even answer a straight question (ie, his definition of rural). Or doesn’t want to, because he knows he’s caught in the illogic of his arguments if he does.</p>
<p><<no point=“” in=“” trying=“” to=“” educate=“” this=“” individual,=“” folks.=“” not=“” gonna=“” happen.=“”>></no></p>
<p>Maybe he needs to stock up on some Grey Poupon and buy a few extra vacuum cleaners.</p>
<p>pacheight may know about acting, and I’m not saying he doesn’t. But we have no way of knowing as we have no clue his background in the field. </p>
<p>I don’t profess to be an actor but I know about college theater programs. My advice (in terms of my work) is with regard to college admissions and selection, and not with work in the industry (though I feel I can at least discuss that a bit with a daughter who is in the industry, not unlike pacheight advises others on CC about athletic recruitment as his D was a recruited athlete but I take it that packeight is not a professional athlete himself).</p>
<p>I’m with p3t with the huge number of people I know with both BAs and BFAs in theater, acting, and musical theater who are now working professionally in NYC, having earned their degrees outside the city.</p>
<p>Whatever pacheight THINKS is rural doesn’t matter. I provided a document from CA as to what the state defines as rural in terms of its school system. The facts are there. The school populations are in the links I provided. </p>
<p>To call a city of 500,000 or even 250,000 rural is just an opinion but is not truly what rural means. Burlington, VT (which is not where I live) has about 39,000 people and THAT city is NOT RURAL, yet is MUCH smaller than the cities pacheight mentions. My town of 1700 is rural and the distance from a city is another aspect of the definition of rural.</p>
<p>I think pacheight lives in the LA area and I guess anything farther away is called rural in his book. And parents who send their kids to rural schools are “bad parents.”</p>
<p>From pacheight:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Wow.</p>
<p>I wonder what that makes my state with the population density of 4/sq mile.</p>
<p>^lunar…</p>
<p>^^Better than Pluto, I guess.</p>
<p>OT (unlike the last 30 pages of this thread): recommend highly “How I killed Pluto, and why it had it coming” as a fun read.</p>
<p>FYI…this is the Census Bureau’s definition of “rural”:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p><a href=“http://ncseonline.org/nle/crsreports/05jun/97-905.pdf[/url]”>http://ncseonline.org/nle/crsreports/05jun/97-905.pdf</a></p>
<p>I live in a rural town of 1,700 inhabitants. Sacramento has a population of 500,000 people and is the seventh largest city in the state of CA. No comparison.</p>