Sad to see DD prep high school didn't make the Forbes top 20 prep school!

<p>paying3: never said a kid shouldn’t get a college degree. did say a lot of kids are better off getting to ny or la to get their degree and learn acting than wasting 4 years at a 2nd tier arts program.</p>

<p>In many of your posts, such as on the Theater/Drama Majors forum, you have discouraged students from getting theater or acting degrees in college and have said to go straight to NYC or LA. While you haven’t said not to go to college at all, you have said to go to those cities and straight out of HS audition for professional work, as well as take acting lessons/classes in those cities (but not at a college). You have said to perhaps attend any college in those cities to study liberal arts, but not to go to college for theater as that is not where you believe someone can receive excellent acting training. You also discourage attending extremely well regarded college theater programs that are not located in these cities. You have also written many times that one learns acting on the job, and not at school.</p>

<p>Many hold a different view. These folks, myself included, don’t think the four years of college are for getting professional work but rather to be educated and to engage in intense training in the craft (acting or MT). After graduation, then seek professional work, once trained. If one is going to go to college, put all energy into college, not seeking work. If one is hired to do a professional acting job (and I’m not talking commercials), it will usually require leaving school to do it. There isn’t a need to do that while going to college, and thus one doesn’t NEED to be in NYC or LA until trained. There are some advantages to being in those cities when in college, as my D was in NYC, but the reason isn’t in order to get work while in college. </p>

<p>In any case, there are many very well regarded college theater and MT programs and they do provide good training that many in the industry seek out. You mentioned that the agents are not going to come to Michigan, to one student on CC, but the fact is that top programs like Michigan bring their seniors to NYC and present them in a showcase for agents once they have been trained. Their professional life starts at that point. An excellent college theater or MT program can help, not hurt. It may not be a necessity but it can offer fine training with professionals, as well as a degree. </p>

<p>Going to college in some city to major in something else so that you can be in a location where you can be seeking work those whole four years is nothing I would advise a high school graduate to do. If they go to college, their efforts should be devoted to college. If they want to seek work, then skip college all together (though the odds for an untrained 18 year old with no connections in these major acting markets are not great). They will be competing against 22 year olds that look 18 but have four years of training under their belts. If they are going to attend college anyway, as you say college is a good thing, why not immerse themselves in acting or MT training and theater, rather than some other major? My kid had no interest in majoring in anything other than her life’s passion. Such kids thrive in BFA programs where they can spend four years intensely training. They come out better prepared than the kid who just heads to NYC or LA to “make it” or the kid who majored in Biology just to get a degree in a certain city.</p>

<p>PS, not all programs located outside of LA or NYC are “second tier” and in fact, there are a number of HIGHLY regarded programs outside these two cities.</p>

<p>Pacheight - I had no aptitude or interest in theater myself, but I went to a university that has a well regarded theater program and indeed see their alums on TV or in movies all the time. I wouldn’t hesitate to send my kids there for theater if so inclined. One of my girlfriends who was in the theater program has won Tonys for costume design. Others engage in theater in all different ways. They’re happy. What’s the problem?</p>

<p>Understand you don’t agree. But most of what you are disagreeing with I’m not arguing. Go to college, yes. Go to a good theater arts college, yes…in or out of NY and la for that college, sure. BUT here’s where we depart:</p>

<p>Do you become a better actor, a better artist working with pros or been taught by amateurs? If an 18 year old kid can not get into something like tisCh than I suggest she’ll be better of working and or training with pros.</p>

<p>And a 22 year old grad is up against a lot of actors who’ve been working since 18 or younger</p>

<p>Sooz, there are a lot trained actors in NY and la who did not learn it in college. Lots of Garrett hedlund’s out there. Lots. Its a trade, you get good on the job.</p>

<p>On lighter note I bet I can guess your favorite actor</p>

<p>pacheight, you actually have written posts advising against going to college to major in theater and also have advised if going to college for theater, to only do so in LA or NYC. You also have advised HS graduates to go straight to NYC or LA and learn the craft of acting on the job (many of these posts were on the Theater/Drama Major Forum, and you touched upon that on this thread as well. </p>

<p>In any case, even taking up your point now about being taught by pros or amateurs, tells me you haven’t explored many of the fine BFA programs that exist for acting or musical theater. At many of these programs, the faculty are professionals, not amateurs or academics. </p>

<p>Also, if a kid wants to pursue acting or musical theater, should they waste four years studying something else as opposed to being trained in their field? I would not advise that. </p>

<p>Of course a 22 year old grad is up against a lof of actors who have beenworking since 18 or younger! My point about the 18 year old fresh out of high school competing with 22 year olds who can play younger (looks) who have four years of training under their belts is gonna be tough for the 18 year old. ya know, my kid has been in this field her entire life, including working professionally before she got to college (she was still 16 when she started college), but even she knew that she needed an education and four years of conservatory training before auditioning at the highest levels in NYC against those in their 20s. Her college education and BFA training has served her very well so far and as I wrote earlier, I can connect every job she has had since she left home in some fashion to having attended her college.</p>

<p>pacheight, I cross posted with you, but I have already acknowledged in other posts that there are many paths to a career as an actor…no college, taking acting lessons, college in a different field, a BA in theater, or a BFA in Acting or MT. People are successful in all these paths. A college education with BFA training (with professional faculty) cannot HURT but can only help.</p>

<p>As far as getting good on the job…it is hard to get cast if you don’t have the skill set or talent in the first place. </p>

<p>I have no clue how you could guess my favorite actor…because I don’t have one! So tell me, who is it? :)</p>

<p>soozie, didn’t your favorite actor room with Al Gore in college?
;)</p>

<p>I’m looking forward to hearing who my favorite actor is from pacheight since I don’t have one and so it will be interesting to find out who it is. </p>

<p>Meanwhile, emeraldkity4, yeah Tommy Lee Jones went to Hahvahd. He did all right.</p>

<p>I think soozievt’s favorite actor is her daughter. :)</p>

<p>Mathmom, if I had to pick, yes, she’d be my number one. I’m a mom after all. And if I must say so, she is pretty talented in several facets of the performing arts. :p</p>

<p>Enough with the hostilities, let’s return the discussion to a topic we feel good about - me. So after a brief, but sunny trip to Florida I am back in the lousy weather. The bleak weather, although generally unpleasant, does accentuate my vibrant flash tan. Nothing spells success like a winter tan; I watch the huddled gray masses shuffle along the side walks and we share nothing in common (save for the mutual understanding that I am demonstrably better). </p>

<p>While I am sorry about the discord among the drama crowd, I must observe, in the interest of candor, and without prejudice, that it goes with the territory. </p>

<p>On a positive note I am quite happy to learn of these $1.7 million homes, apparently the never ending reports of a housing bubble are true. An entire house for under two million; seems like quite a bargain. I may buy one to store my extra sports cars and golf clubs.</p>

<p>

Is Ricky Gervais posting here now?</p>

<p>Stats31 & bovertine, </p>

<p>Thanks for the laughs!</p>

<p>As far as the “drama crowd,” I know that paying3tuitions and I both have kids who are working actors. Pacheight discusses this field a lot on CC, but won’t tell us even in broad terms what his connection is to the field, which would help to give some perspective to his posts and some credence as well.</p>

<p>The drama continues…:)</p>

<p>I’m very proud of myself for putting down my coffee before starting to read Stats’ post. </p>

<p>Stats, I have a house a little northward of $2m that you might find intriguing: [Rocky</a> Oaks Estate](<a href=“http://rockyoaksestate.com/2010/preview.html]Rocky”>http://rockyoaksestate.com/2010/preview.html)</p>

<p>what i meant by pro is learning on a job where everyone is being paid, not just the instructor. </p>

<p>i do think college programs can be misguiding to young actors if they are insular, clubby. and many are even the well known ones. for instance theater grads often form their own theater companies after they graduate, these are mostly just extensions of their clubby college programs. They’re safe environments with little risk of real critical feedback. An actor needs critical feedback to improve. And an actor needs to take risks to extend her skills.</p>

<p>Tommy Lee Jones is a good example of what I’ve been arguing. He didn’t go to Harvard to study acting, he was an english major. And mostly a recruited athlete (texas football player, ya!) on an “ivy scholarship”…aka financial aid. But he did put himself out there in the Boston acting community and joined clubs and auditioned for roles while he was an undergrad. So what’s Tommy doing, he’s going to college but not for acting and he’s putting himself out there and learning from the greater acting community in Boston, including from a young lad from MIT, James Woods:) This a great example, so I’m a young actor but I can’t get in to MIT or Harvard, so go to one of the other 60 lac’s or universities in the Boston area but learn to act in pro and semi-pro theater companies that serve all the actors in the Boston area. apply that same strategy to LA and NY. Now try and apply that strategy to a “great” theater arts program in Indiana or wherever outside of our big cities</p>

<p>I recommend Tommy’s approach or you are so committed and confident, like Garrett, you just go and a few years later you’re starring in Country Rose…that kid did a damn good acting (and singing) job for someone who skipped college. and has never been in a theater arts program.</p>

<p>acting is a great career, it’s fun, it’s rewarding, but it is a trade similar to carpentry, etc…you learn it and you get good on the job!</p>

<p>I’m sorry but the learning it on the job in and of itself is not something I recommend an aspiring actor to do. I think someone pursuing this field needs both training and production experience. It is also difficult to be cast professionally without any training. So, in order to “learn on the job,” you first must be cast. A trained actor has better odds of being cast. But training and production work can go hand in hand. I firmly believe in the importance of practical experience and not just training. Both are important. Before my kid ever got to college, she had been in close to 50 productions.</p>

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<p>I don’t know what you mean in relation to what I posted. You said that an acting student needs to learn from pros and not amateurs. I know at my D’s BFA college program (as well as at many other BFA programs), she was learning from professionals who are professionals in the field themselves. They all had impressive “credits.” My D has already graduated college but also has jobs in a professional capacity at her former college. She is there right now at this moment working with students with a faculty member who has been on Broadway. Last semester, she worked with the students with a Tony award winning Broadway star who is on the faculty. This spring, she will be musically directing one of the faculty directed musicals at that college, and the director has been the director of national tours and off Broadway shows. When she was a student, she worked closely in several capacities with a faculty member who is a Tony nominated playwright/director/composer. I could go on with plenty of other examples.</p>

<p>sooz, it sounds like your daughter is doing great!! excellent! and she’s in NY right? so ya, that’s the right place, I agree!!!</p>

<p>pacheight, yes, she is in NYC. She is not a college student (graduated in 2009 at age 20). She is working professionally in her field in several capacities. Please understand that many of her friends who are making it in theater in NYC went to BFA in Musical Theater or Acting programs OUTSIDE of NYC first.</p>

<p>By the way, I can think of two of her friends and peers with whom she went to college in her program. These two friends were major film stars as kids. They must have valued getting a BFA in Acting anyway. :D</p>

<p>pacheight, my point in 677 was not about MY daughter but examples of the professionals that BFA students work with in their college theater programs.</p>

<p>My daughter would never have had the experiences she has had thus far if she had gone straight to NYC without having attended her college program first.</p>