Safeties that the "average excellent" student can love

College Search & Lists
21

The list of safeties for the purpose of this question will vary greatly depending on what the parentally-determined budget is, and the state of residency.

A student from a wealthy family who can easily and will pay $75,000 per year will have large numbers of potential safeties to choose from. A student from a family who can pay very little will have a much more limited number of potential safeties to choose from.

So perhaps suggestions would be more useful if which groups they are suitable for were listed:

  1. Student/family can pay list price.
  2. Student/family needs FA or scholarships, but can afford typical FAFSA and college-determined EFCs.
  3. Student/family needs FA or scholarships, but cannot afford typical FAFSA and college-determined EFCs (or is blocked from FA at that college due to divorce or other situations).

Obviously, colleges likely to be affordable to higher numbered groups are likely to be affordable to lower numbered groups, but not the other way around.

22

This is a fantastic subject for a thread. I wonder if it is worth devising a common definition for “average excellent,” though. To me, “average excellent” connotes a super-scored SAT score of at least 1500, and for these kids, it’s possible that the schools mentioned here are over-inclusive.

Regardless, I come up with approximately 150 schools that have:
–an admit rate of at least 45%
–at least 2,000 applications
–a 75th percentile SAT score of admits of at least 1300

In light of the Harvard lawsuit revelation that roughly half the class is reserved for hooked candidates, I have begun to look solely at the 75th percentiles, which one could argue is going to be roughly the midpoint of the unhooked candidates.

(I opened the search up to the 45% admit rate to include a couple of well-known schools that would have been just below the threshold, such as SMU, Clemson, and Syracuse)

It looks like there are 25 schools that have an admit rate of at least 45% and a 75th percentile score of at least 1400, led by the University of Illinois-Urbana (61% admit rate, 75th percentile SAT of 1500)

Those 25 schools are:

University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
University of Minnesota-Twin Cities
Mount Holyoke College
Lawrence University
Ohio State University-Main Campus
University of Wisconsin-Madison
Colorado School of Mines
Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology
Santa Clara University
Southern Methodist University
The University of Texas at Dallas
University of Washington-Seattle Campus
Truman State University
University of Missouri-Kansas City
University of Pittsburgh-Pittsburgh Campus
Fordham University
Iowa State University
Brigham Young University-Provo
Gettysburg College
Rhodes College
Illinois Institute of Technology
Sarah Lawrence College
Centre College
Rutgers University-New Brunswick
Earlham College

I’ll list a few more–these are schools with at least a 45% admit rate, and a 75th percentile SAT score of between 1350-1390:

Illinois Wesleyan University
University of Connecticut
North Carolina State University at Raleigh
Clemson University
Saint Louis University
Lewis & Clark College
Dickinson College
University of Minnesota-Morris
Purdue University-Main Campus
Miami University-Oxford
Rochester Institute of Technology
University of Oklahoma-Norman Campus
University of Nebraska-Lincoln
The College of Wooster
Furman
Whitman College
Kalamazoo College
University of Iowa
University of Georgia
University of Alabama at Birmingham
New Jersey Institute of Technology
University of Dallas
St Lawrence University
University of Massachusetts-Amherst
Texas A & M University-College Station
Drexel University
Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University
Loyola Marymount University
Chapman University
University of Maryland-Baltimore County
Emerson College
University of Northern Iowa
Austin College
Milwaukee School of Engineering
Indiana University-Bloomington
Syracuse University
Arizona State University-Tempe
University of Utah
University of Vermont
University of Denver
University of Missouri-Columbia
University of San Diego
Gonzaga University
Wheaton College
Drake University
Cedarville University
Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University-Prescott

Finally, why not. Here’s the remainder, the schools with the 75th percentile SAT scores of between 1300-1350

Pennsylvania State University-Main Campus
University of California-Santa Cruz
University of Colorado Boulder
University of Cincinnati-Main Campus
School of the Art Institute of Chicago
Michigan Technological University
Mercer University
Muhlenberg College
Missouri University of Science and Technology
Cornell College
Florida State University
University of Delaware
University of South Carolina-Columbia
University of Kentucky
University of Illinois at Chicago
University of the Pacific
The College of New Jersey
Providence College
Elon University
Seattle University
Southern Illinois University-Carbondale
Winona State University
Clarkson University
University of St Thomas
DePauw University
University of Alabama in Huntsville
Hobart William Smith Colleges
Lipscomb University
Calvin College
Lawrence Technological University
North Dakota State University-Main Campus
Coe College
North Central College
University of Central Florida
Michigan State University
Butler University
University of Portland
Florida Institute of Technology
Washington & Jefferson College
Allegheny College
Hope College
Millsaps College
Union University
University of South Florida-Main Campus
Hofstra University
Loyola University Chicago
The University of Tennessee-Knoxville
Auburn University
University of Dayton
Marquette University
University of North Carolina Wilmington
University of Massachusetts-Lowell
The New School
Belmont University
Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University-Daytona Beach
Ohio Northern University
Ursinus College
Simmons College
Whitworth University
Wofford College
St Catherine University
Messiah College
Oglethorpe University
Concordia College at Moorhead
Luther College
Otterbein University
University of California-Riverside
Colorado State University-Fort Collins
Montana State University
Oregon State University
SUNY College at Geneseo
Carthage College
Champlain College
Saint Anselm College
Berry College
The College of Saint Scholastica
Arizona State University-Polytechnic

23

As an addendum to the above, there are some schools I don’t have stats for that may deserve to be in there, like Clark, Temple, Drew, Northern Illinois (?), Western Illinois (?), Beloit, Fairfield University, etc.

24

One needs to understand though when dealing with most public universities (like those listed above) you have to look at the college within the University your applying to, the major within the college (e.g. CS at UIUC is not going to have anything close to a 45% admit rate) to find something close to an accurate admit rate.

25

@bamamom2021 for Pitt the choice of major seems to be a big factor in selectivity.

26

Yes; in addition, some of the state schools may be auto-admit for in-state students above a certain grade/score threshold, so the in-state admit rate would be essentially 100%, since you would know in advance whether you would be admitted. OOS students obviously would face a much lower admit rate.

27

In fact overall admit rates are really only applicable to colleges, not universities.

28

A 1500, to me, is beyond “average” excellent.

29

^^ I think the definition, as it was coined by @Lindagaf a couple years ago, meant that excellent student who was like so many other excellent students and couldn’t really distinguish him/herself from the rest of the excellent students.
Iow, hadn’t medaled at the Olympics or had the lead in a Broadway play (yet!) or some other hook, but had great stats and great ECs.

30

I interpreted this as going a whole other route. I listed “admissions” safety/likely type schools on my post for the average excellent student. Every family has a unique financial situation and the number of combinations potentially won’t be practical to list. Even with auto admit. It’s state by state. Some are stats driven and some are class rank based.

And to clarify a bit. 1500 is in no way average excellent.

Maybe 55,000 or so students out of 1,900,000 test takers earned a 1500
This group is the elite test taker. Except for the low gpa outliers, I would reasonably guesstimate 3.8uw + type gpas as well. Top 10 to 15 percent of the class. Val’s and sals at many. All aps available and Star ecs and recs

Average “excellent” is the 1350 range. 3.6 to 3.8 uw. With lots of aps, Eagle Scouts and clsss presidents.

Average average is much much lower.

31

Thanks–that helps greatly. I have been considering this term to refer to the student with top numbers, but without any EC that demonstrates high performance or passion.

With that definition, the third group I posted above would probably be most appropriate to look at. These are the schools where the 1350 SAT-taker would be slightly above-average among the non-hooked students.

Also in that range (75th % at 1290ish) are George Mason, University of Louisville, Creighton, University of San Francisco, St. Josephs, Seton Hall.

How about Duquesne?

32

@ratmanta

Good call. Love the Dukes and Pittsburgh is a great city!

33

U of Puget Sound is another CTCL school with nice academics close to Seattle and with good aid/merit.

34

Although it wasn’t one of our “safeties” Clarkson is an excellent option. S19 did, however, apply to St. Lawrence University, which is nearby up there in north country. Acceptance rate is a bit under 50%. I don’t know the SAT numbers. What I love about St. Lawrence is that they treated my kid like someone who, despite his high stats, might actually attend. And he has seriously considered it.

The “safety” he’s most likely (hopefully) to end up committing to is Hobart and William Smith. Beautiful campus, excellent faculty, job placement, study abroad, and lots of opportunities for an undecided student to explore his or her interests.

College of Wooster is another. We never got out there to visit, but we have some familial contacts with the school. One of Wooster’s strengths is the opportunity for undergraduate research.

I believe that at Both Wooster and HWS, you must interview in order to be eligible for merit aid. S19 interviewed with Wooster over the phone.

Temple is another place lots of “average excellent” students are ending up. A friend of my son was offered a full ride plus research stipend. It was an offer he could not refuse.

Also, it should be noted that Syracuse may not be a safety for all majors. For example. the journalism school is quite selective.

35

I understood “average excellent” to mean kids with stats upwards of 1500+ /3.8-3.9 with good ECs. The perception here on this board may be that those kids are not “average excellent”, but I can tell you from experience that they get waitlisted all over the place and must, must, must not only find appropriate safeties, but also exert significant effort into demonstrating interest if those safeties happen to be private schools.
Anyway - great list @RayManta ! Really helpful. Wish we had had it a year ago! Lol.

36

I too would place “average” excellent definitely somewhere below 1500. I would have thought 95th percentile is enough for “average” excellent… I believe that’s around 1420-1440 on the SAT and 30-31 on ACT.

1500 is 99th percentile. I agree with others that is beyond “average” excellent.

37

The problem is convincing those average excellent students, whether they are 3.8/1400 or 4.0/1580 that Denver or Delaware or Iowa is good enough for them. There are dozens that are, that are affordable, that offer the perfect major, but once the students gets ‘Dream School’ in their mind nothing else seems good enough.

38

^^Yes, that’s exactly the point here. When a val or sal with great scores and good ECs has been told by everyone how xyz elite schools will be perfect for them and of course they’ll get in, few really get invested in finding schools that will excite them among the ones that will almost certainly admit them. Yet there are many that serve this cohort really well.

39

We might want to map various categories of colleges to the guidelines @ucbalumnus suggested in post #20.
Something like this:

  1. Student/family can pay list price
    Most of the “Colleges That Change Lives” (https://ctcl.org/category/college-profiles/);
    many public universities (other than the “public Ivies”), especially directional (non-flagship) state universities, whether in-state or OOS;
    schools in categories 2 & 3 below.

  2. Student/family needs FA or scholarships, but can afford typical FAFSA and college-determined EFCs.
    Many in-state public schools (run their online Net Price Calculators);
    out-of-state public schools that offer discounts/scholarships/reciprocity for OOS students (such as New College of Florida, or the WUE schools);
    some less-selective colleges that offer competitive merit scholarships
    (such as: http://competitivefulltuition.yolasite.com/) ;
    some of the “Colleges That Change Lives” (run their online Net Price Calculators);
    schools in category 3 below.

  3. Student/family needs FA or scholarships, but cannot afford typical FAFSA and college-determined EFCs (or is blocked from FA at that college due to divorce or other situations).
    Colleges that automatically grant large merit scholarships (full tuition / full ride) for qualifying stats
    (such as the ones listed here: http://automaticfulltuition.yolasite.com/);
    In-state public schools within commuting distance from home.

Do these categories cover schools the “average excellent” student can love?
Hard to say, since that is very subjective and personal.
Categories 1 & 2 do cover a fairly wide variety of colleges (in terms of size, location, campus atmosphere, programs, etc.)
IMO, a good education at an affordable price is something anyone should love.

40

Purely as a mom, many of the schools noted wouldn’t have been a fit for D1 or offered the aid we needed. You can imagine, from my posts, that we carefully matched on more than stats, to come up with the list. It wasn’t, “Where could she get in and get the degree?” More like, who would be intrigued, want to pull her into the class?

I don’t take Average Excellent to mean “average.” I see it as in the ordinary range of excellent, that large pool of great kids with drives and a great record, including ECs, but not tippy top. Yes, it depends a lot on major- but not just for raw chances. The kid needs to be academically satisfied. It mattered very much to us that her major be both strong and the right fit. The flagship could have given her a degree in her major, but not her sub field. And not fostered her spirit and drives.

I thought that was the theme among many parents of AE kids.