Hi. D25 (classical vocal performance, soprano) is applying to music majors at universities. Since June, I have posted on this forum a few times and have learned a lot. I really appreciate all your wisdom and help. Special thanks to you if you were one of the responders to my previous questions and even offered to respond personally.
She has taken sample lessons with professors at some schools - some in-person and some virtual. Now, my question is how important these lessons are for the admission process. In one thread, I read someone suggesting that we âmake the bestâ of the sample lessons and the networking. What does this mean (other than learning/incorporating the feedback), and how does this networking happen? More importantly, what percentage of students do this? Are the professors expecting this contact to take place? If the professors are meeting so many students one-on-one, thatâs a lot of work, too, and do they remember them all? Some of them charge a fee, which makes me think a lot of students do approach for lessons.
Lastly, do you have any thoughts about how this practice varies among individual schools? Public vs. private? One of the private schools asked for a resume, a few music clips, and a college essay before a sample lesson, which I found very interesting and wonder if other selective private schools also have additional requirement. FYI, the schools on our lists are public and private universities that require an audition for entranceânone are stand-alone music schools or stand-alone conservatories. And we are chasing merit funds.
Thanks. Looking forward to your insight.
My information is old. My musician son got his masters in 2009.
The sample lessons he took for both his bachelors and masters (and he did them for both before applying) were more for him to get a feel of how he and the applied teacher interacted and related. And yes, he didnât apply to a couple of places because he didnât feel comfortable during that trial lesson.
In terms of admission, I would imagine if a student is particularly strong and desired, the applied teacher would have influence with admissions, and particularly at conservatories.
I can share what my 2 VP daughters did. Canât say if they did it the right way or the wrong way, but it all worked out for them. My oldest went through the process in 2016-17. She applied to 4 schools and received acceptances from them. Indiana State Universityâher voice teacher was on faculty so she automatically had sample lessons there. Oberlinâno sample lesson but the audition weekend there was so extensive that she met several professors. DePauw Universityâshe attended a vocal camp there the summer before that was run by faculty and did several NATS competitions there so was in front of faculty. A sample lesson was also part of the audition day. IU Jacobsâshe did not have a lesson there until after she was accepted, but once she did (over her spring break) she found a prof she absolutely loved and immediately chose to go there. She graduated with both her bachelors and masters from Jacobs.
My youngest went through the process just last year. She applied to 5 schools and received acceptances from them. UIUC (VP and Lyric Theater)âshe had a lesson there in the fall (one of her favorites) that we tacked onto her campus tour and attended several of their performances over the course of the year. Indiana State University (same as her sister above). DePauwâshe did a sample lesson the summer before (great experience) and attended a couple of performances and took tours. Butler Universityâshe did NATS competitions there so was in front of faculty and participated in their February competition/audition weekend which included a sample lesson and lots of singing in front of faculty and took tours. IU Jacobsâshe already had quite a bit of knowledge of the campus due to her sis. She did a music school tour. She did not take a lesson until after she received her acceptance but after that took from 2, loved both, and immediately sent in her deposit. She has just started her freshman year.
Overall, it feels like it is easier to schedule lessons in the smaller programs. In the larger programs (IU), some profs replied to requests and some didnât. The summer before and fall of high school senior year seemed to be the best time to schedule them for faculty. I know that once audition season hits (Jan-Mar) they are swamped with requests, busy doing auditions, and trying to meet the needs of their current students.
Smaller sample than some here, butâŠ
S22 did summer programs after 10th and 11th grade- all were online due to covid- but it gave him exposure to college faculty from multiple programs.
Late in the summer before senior year, he had narrowed his list significantly to 3 schools for music (and a few others not for music, as he wasnât quite sure yet that he wanted a purely performance major). We visited/toured 2 of the three. Beforehand, he reached out to one that he had met in a summer program, included his music resume, and asked for a sample lesson and made sure to ask how much he charged and the best way to pay him.
The other prof he had not met, however, an older friend had been a student of that prof a few years prior, so he made sure to mention that student in his introductory email, again with a music resume and request for a lesson.
He had lessons at both, loved both, and felt that he would be happy at either school. The third was a bit more of a âsafetyâ to him as he was still thinking perhaps of majoring in something other than performance, and felt that if he didnât get accepted to that music program, he would still be accepted to the college based on their high admit rates, so he did not reach out and we did not visit at that time.
The first teacher did not charge. The second did, even though on their website and in their information session they expressly said âwe do not charge for trial lessonsâ.
By the time acceptances came in, he was sure he wanted a performance degree. He went back to the first school and had another lesson with that same prof and was sold. And that is his studio teacher. He was accepted to all three music schools and one other school.
What I was always told is that if you took a sample lesson, the most important thing is to show that you listened to their feedback and improved between your trial lesson and the audition. We made sure that my son wrote down detailed notes after each one, which he then brought to his private teacher. (The other important thing we were also told was to always offer to pay and follow up with a thank you email or note.)
My son did three trial lessons and spoke to one teacher on the phone. He sent all of them a bio or resume and several video clips with his request for lessons, which I highly recommend. Apparently some of these teachers get hundreds of trial lesson requests, and they simply cannot grant all of them. While I have heard two of the three teachers my son had trial lessons with normally charge for trial lessons, none of them would let him pay when he offered.
My son only applied to conservatories, so the experience may be different with universities. There is definitely variability depending on your level as well â if a school wants to recruit you, they will be much more inclined to offer a trial lesson. In one case, a conservatory even offered to fly my son out for one.
My son plays string instrument so his experience may be different from vocal performances. He took several (<10) sample lessons in the summers after 10th and 11th grade. Some are part of his summer programs, and some are just lessons. Other than his playing, he also got a âfeelingâ about each professor, and has his own assessments on how he would work with them. He told me that one was the best overall, one was the best on musical interpretation, one was the best on techniques, one was the best long term mentor, and one was okay (no âclickingâ). He did send recordings before asking for the lessons, along with his musical resume (with a brief brag sheet). He only applied to schools where he liked the professors, and was accepted at all 4 schools.
One of my sonâs close friends who was a top candidate everywhere and was accepted everywhere including the tuition-free conservatories, decided to attend one school where he did not have a sample lesson with the professor but only went by reputation. He regretted two months into his first year and applied for transfer.
Lots of great questions and like everything with the music major process, a lot of variability.
I agree with @thumper1 that trial lessons can be very helpful for the student to assess the fit of the professor and program. In my mind, this should be the primary focus. It is hard to say how much it impacts the professorâs impression of the student. I would like to think that the actual audition is the objective measure of whether a student is accepted, but we are human after all. Also agree with @TooManyViolinists that incorporating the feedback from the lesson into your audition performance is really important.
In my sonâs cohort, I would say that most students had trial lessons or participated in master classes with most if not all of the professors on their list. But the oboe world is small, I donât think this is necessarily the norm. Ironically, my son is attending at the one conservatory where he never had a lesson, as the professor does not offer them to applicants. Still worked out fine.
This may be obvious, but be sure to have your musician be the only one contacting the program and professor. Others may disagree, but this includes inquiring about fees and payment. Professors want to work with self reliant, professional young musicians, not parents.
I do not think that professors expect students to take a trial lesson. They are often so busy that it should not be a surprise if they canât be reached or if they decline a lesson.
Thank you. Understanding that the lessons are pretty important, we will pursue them in other schools as well. will also look into the resumes. And yes, she did note down (in fact one teacher suggested we record the session) the details of the suggestions provided by the professors, and overall, she had a great experience. However, all these schools have multiple voice teachers (perhaps not the same for some instruments⊠I am not sure), but I donât think we have the capacity to chase them all. In one school, multiple professors referred us back to the chair (I liked that approach). I noticed that Vanderbilt and Chapman have a form on their website, which means they deal with the request centrally.
It is difficult to narrow down which professor(s) to request a lesson from at a given school. Others have suggested on other forums doing a bit of internet sleuthing - ie look at the professorsâ bios and try to find videos of their students to see how they sound.
I also agree that the lesson is as much for the student to see how comfortable they feel with the professorâs teaching style, feedback, etc as it is for the professor to gauge how âteachableâ the student is/will be and if they will be a fit in their studio.
The audition is the key element, of course, however, a studio teacher can and often does lobby for students if they feel strongly that they should be admitted.
For vocalists, itâs hard to know exactly what you want in a teacher bc they are young and inexperienced compared with instrumentalist. Still if you can get sample lessons, I would only be concerned about âvibeâ. And, she can start determining what she likes and doesnât like in a teacher. And, for now, if itâs kindness and supportâŠthatâs good enough for a voice student.
My D did ONE sample lesson as we thought that it was âgaucheâ to parade her in front of teachers (just to show you how lost we were in the process). Once we figured out that it was a âthingâ, we were setting up auditions and we requested one from the head of voice (not knowing how in the world to pick a teacher). She got a 10 min meeting, sang a bitâŠand the teacher saidâŠyouâll be fine. That was it. We did not schedule another one bc it just added more stressâŠand I decided to bag it. It all seemed insane to me. I wanted my kid to enjoy the experience, not dread it or worry about every detail.
She was accepted to all schools. She had several teachers reach out to her after the auditions (note some schools/teachers do this; others donât). And, she picked the teacher AFTER that. This was before zoom etc so my D met her teacher the first week of school (although she was in the audition room and commented on my Dâs dress as she walked outâŠ.which delighted my DâŠgame sees game). They are still in contact.
Again this is for Voice. Full disclosure: Iâm a âgood enougherâ not a maximizer. So this may resonate with some and not others. I just want people to know that you can get acceptances and scholarshipsâŠeven if you are not perfect in every detail of the process. Do what your kid can reasonably do and still be happyâŠand let the rest goâŠ
Edit: after the audition the chair/head of the voice dept can help you find a good fit teacher. My Dâs UG teacher did a lot of Mozart type voice, which faculty can hear better in a young voice. So working with he chair of voice can be helpful before or after. They may also know studios size. My Dâs teacher did NOT do sample lessons before auditions. Too many requests and she didnât want to be persuaded. She waited until the auditions to start contacting studentsâŠthat she thought she could help. It wasnât the BEST students. It was students with a certain voice type.
I have 2 kids that went through the vocal process. My younger kid is also a soprano. They each did a decent number of sample lessons between winter of junior year and fall of senior year. I think they were really good both ways. It gave us a lot of insight into the vibe of programs, how admissions works, etc. In some cases teachers were even straight forward with spots they had, funding they could access, âdonât sweat the prescreenâ etc. One of my kids got a really long wonderful lesson, no charge. At the end the teacher said âI wish I had the funding to get you here, you will get better offers for undergrad. come back and see me for grad schoolâ. They didnât click with every teacher, which is fine.
When emailing teachers it did help to have a concise resume and a short private youtube video of a performance. Mention your teacher and a quick background in your email.
So now all that said, my kids got into programs where they had sample lessons and they also didnât get into others. They eliminated some after a sample lesson. They also got into schools where they didnât have sample lessons. I guess I wouldnât hyper focus on this as necessary to admission. It can be helpful on both sides. But some school my kids applied to didnât do at all and some just werenât super responsive. My daughter contacted 2 different teachers at one school, got no where. Then after audition season a teacher was contacting her constantly and she was definitely admitted with good merit. Since your daughter is a senior, I kind of consider the time to ask to be over probably by mid November. Some may offer options during audition season but they will let you know. And then you can ask after audition season after an admission too.
Now that said, my 2nd kid was post covid, she was able to do at least 1-2 sample lessons online via zoom. So that is a thought too. But I wouldnât do more than sending an email or two and if there is and individual teachers will vary on this. Sometimes itâs a timing issue. I wouldnât read too much into it if you donât get a response or get a ânoâ. She should go in and be relaxed and understand the goal is to find a fit both ways. And not feel pressure to network, etc.
If you are searching for merit, there are old threads here that have some merit awards listed. If you mentioned schools, people might be willing to message you offers they have recieved. We found some schools can be less generous with female vocalists for undergrad.
Lot of great responses here, and I am going to try and add my thoughts kind of as a summary of what others have said. Having been around these boards a long time and looking at my sonâs experiences (violinist, now in a successful chamber group) there are people who claim there is a one size fits all method with finding a teacher, applying, getting merit aid or not, etc. In the end there is no magic formula, every school is different, every teacher is different, getting into music programs would make most analytics types go off the deep end because it is a dark art, not science.
In the end, the answer is that sample lessons have advantages for the student. It makes a teacher a lot more likely to agree to teach a student if they pass the audition (especially if they werenât on the panel), it means the student and teacher get to see if the apprentice/master fit is there and not waste time on a mismatch. If you do sample lessons before audition season (or have exposure at a summer festival), you can eliminate teachers/programs from your lists.
The thing I will stress is that if you canât do sample lessons that doesnât mean you canât audition and get in; obviously the big thing is having the audition rep prepared to a fine level and doing it in the audition. In the end you basically have to do your best and trust it is good enough, it is so darn easy to agonize over the process, especially when there are people out there telling you âif you donât do this, it isnât happeningâ (who are as bad as the people who tell a music student that it isnât that hard to get a good job in music, that the boy down the street studied violin in his school, got into juilliard and is in the NY Phil; I can almost assuredly guarantee you that is as false as the notion that if you donât do summer music programs and do sample lessons with every teacher at Juilliard on your instrument, you wonât get into a good music program)