“I do not see roving bands of Presbyterians killing people.”
First of all, Presbytyrians are mainstream protestants, and they are not the problem, the issue we are talking about is fundamentalist Christians.
What you also are leaving out is while we haven’t seen too many attacks like this from Christian fundamentlists, rather than a major shooting like this, we see a large number of small incidents. Abortion doctors have been killed, abortion clinics vandalized and bombed, patrons of abortion clinics have been assaulted or threatened, churches that are gay friendly have been vandalized and gotten threats, gay clubs and bars have been vandalized and shot up, LGBT people beaten and killed by people motivated by religious belief…what is worse, one shooting that kills 14 and wounds 20 something, or hundreds or thousands of attacks that go unnoticed because they are relatively small in scope? Not to mention, of course, the terror that for example LGBT people have in many places because of fear of losing jobs, houses, or physical violence. ,much of which is driven by religious belief. Someone else asked citings of radical christian pastors calling for killing others, basically saying that doesn’t exist in Christianity, when in fact we have pastors who talk about putting gays and lesbians in concentration camps and enforcing Biblical law when it comes to things like adultery and same sex sexual liasons ie death…during the last election cycle, pastors spoke at campaign rallies for GOP candidates that spoke in such language, and no one denounced it…
The only reports I can find of suspicious neighbors worried about being called racists are from the Town Hall site and are attributed to a twitter account of Will Carr, a Fox News reporter.
What is the process for marrying someone from another country and bringing them here to the U.S.? Does anyone know that off-hand?
Does the spouse need a visa to stay (until they get some form of legal residency/citizenship)?
Sorry if this is a dumb question.
I wonder if the wife (who he supposedly met online) had something to do with his “turn” toward radicalization (if that’s even what it was, though it seems possible).
I posted the following link on another thread, but I’ll post it here because it’s well worth reading. It’s a transcript of a speech by Olivier Roy, in which he discusses the results of the investigation of known Islamic terrorists. He concludes that they were not pious Muslims who then went deeper into their faith and decided to kill people. Rather, they were either converts or largely non-practicing members of mainstream Muslim families, who then became radicalized. And they weren’t upstanding citizens, either. They were petty criminals. One of the main locations where people become radicalized is prison.
Dr. Roy concludes that it’s not worthwhile to target the mainstream mosques that these radicals’ families attend, because the radicals are specifically rejecting the Islam of their parents.
as for the neighbor who was quoted on CNN…I was not saying that it was right or wrong just what I heard her say. She actually said she thought they were pretty nice and had a baby but that she thought it was weird they had people leaving a lot. (it might have been nbc not sure)
as for terrorism… I am a fundamental Christian. I go to church, I am Methodist. I love Jesus. Period. I would never harm a flea. I have liberal friends and conservative friends. I have friends who are agnostic. Just because we disagree does not mean I am afraid of people. What I am afraid of are people who kill other people in the name of religion…whether they claim to be Christian or Muslim or anything else. I do not equate people stating they are Christian with someone blowing away 14 people. I am Republican. I am probably someone who never speaks a word on here. But, that is OK. I think there are liberal Democrats who love this country as much as I do. So, please stop with the …fundamental Christians are the root of all evil. The discussion about solutions is productive. Attacking someone because they are a believer is not.
Gee can’t wait until my neighbors are suspicious of me then. I get packages multiple times a week because I’m constantly getting new books and most of my friends are brown so they’re coming and going.
Oh… But I’m white so I’m safe from suspicion"
It is very possible that someone receiving large amounts of ammunition and bomb making supplies would act differently than if they are getting Amway deliveries. Looking around, appearing grim, being reclusive, unfriendly. It’s an entirely different vibe, I would think.
Sometimes when you watch how a person acts, it just seems like something isn’t quite right, but you don’t want to believe it.
But even if you did believe it, what could you do about it?
You can’t exactly call the police and say “My neighbor receives a lot of packages and acts unfriendly. I think he may be a terrorist.” You haven’t given them any information they could act on.
You may say that this guy is a lunatic, and I agree-- he also believes that Frozen’s Let It Go is “Satan’s Recruitment Anthem,” which is hilarious. This guy is a few grapes short of a bunch, and he also makes you wonder whether he’s delivering his unhinged rants from inside a constricting closet. But I invite you to look at the featured speakers at Swanson’s National Religious Liberties Conference, a former governor, a former US Senator and a current US Senator, before you say this is a fringe movement with no mainstream members.
I just don’t think you can read another person’s mind.
Also, we are afraid (I think) of making a spectacle of ourselves or of being wrong. There was a flasher on my express bus for years and everyone knew who he was but it took, literally, years before anyone really raised a fuss. It’s a hard thing to do.
I saw the report about not reporting suspicious activity also. I think it was on the Daily Mail.
If there were a lot of people coming and going from the house, surely they noticed the building of the IEDs in the garage and the weapons and the ammunition.
If I saw people coming and going in a neighbor’s garage, I wouldn’t automatically assume that they were building bombs, and I don’t know why these terrorists’ neighbors would think coming and going meant bomb-building.
There have been periods in my life when I had lots of people coming and going from my house, most of whom shared my ethnicity. And many of them were carrying packages.
314 - I meant the people coming in and out of the house possibly saw the pipes and black powder and such. Or heard the shooters say disturbing things. I didn't mean the neighbors. The people who were invited into Farook's house - were they sympathizers or perhaps the devices, guns and ammo were well hidden. I'm sure the police are investigating.
If I thought my neighbor might be getting ready to carry out an attack and was building a bomb, sure, I’d call the police. At least I could clear my conscience if something happened. You can make anonymous reports, and if they decide not to pursue the lead, that’s their choice. You provide the information, you don’t have to make the decision about whether it will be followed up. Just like at the airport, “See something, say something”.
People are ignoring the possibility that something seemed suspicious to the neighbor. Perhaps in the mannerism of men. Probably apparent that they weren’t getting Girl Scout cookie deliveries.
One thing noted in his Wikipedia entry was that he “must have been insane, because you’d have to be insane to target the President and know you would get caught”.
Yet the same is not said for many many “garden variety” criminals and some far beyond the pale.
Think about it - woman with a 6 month old goes berserk, how many people blame PPP? And guy disgruntled with his workplace goes berserk, how many people blame microaggressions and interpersonal skills?
And all the arms and the bombs, doesn’t the 2nd Amendment give him, as an American citizens, the right to own them? Why can a good ol’ boy have his CB flag and guns and devices in his home in the name of the 2nd Amendment, but someone who is Muslim can’t?
Look at all of the pieces independently, without knowing the outcome, and all can be rationalized by the NRA and by many other groups worried about “our freedom and our privacy”.
But, that is OK. I think there are liberal Democrats who love this country as much as I do. So, please stop with the …fundamental Christians are the root of all evil. The discussion about solutions is productive. Attacking someone because they are a believer is not.