San Bernardino, CA Mass Shooting

My office had active shooter training a few weeks ago. They made many of the same points as that article.

She probably was fully covered. She is from Saudi Arabia.

Here is your active shooter advice from the other side of the country (DC): http://wtop.com/dc/2015/11/d-c-chief-lanier-encourages-people-to-take-the-gunman-out-in-active-shooter-situations/

I have taken active shooter training that talked about how to take down a shooter, but most people haven’t.

Here is a video, and you can see around 5:30 that if you do it right, you can take down a shooter as they enter a room: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2tIeRUbRHw

This would work where I am currently working, but in the place I was previously working, it was basically just a big open floor, where you are not going to be able to “jump” an active shooter.

edit: the more you know about your surroundings, the better your chances are in any bad situation. A fire starts in your kitchen and keeps you contained upstairs. How do you get out? Do you know? It’s your house, you have probably lived there for years…

Surely she had to be uncovered for her visa/passport. No?

We have shelter in place drills twice a year, but that has been deemed not sufficient, so now every spring we practice evacuating the school to a nearby safe zone. There are very few children who don’t understand what we are practicing. I wear the key to the room deadbolt. We note every car near our entrance. This week the local police have come to check us nearly every day, not just at their usual Friday dismissal (when custody exchanges often take place). Staff have a yearly briefing with our police dept ( did you know in a large building, you won’t hear gunfire? that you have about 6 seconds to shut doors and the adrenalin rush will make your fine motor skills disappear?)

Evade, escape, engage only as a last resort.

Our house has been on the market for the last two weeks, but due to the Thanksgiving holiday, a sign hasn’t gone up in our front yard. We’ve had eight showings. I’m now wondering what the neighbors are thinking.

And why should it be? There are probably 10 million+ people who do the exact same for hunting and sports shooting that have no record of any sort, so why should a normal activity be a red flag? The abnormal activity is the bomb making.

She doesn’t have a US Passport, and I imagine Pakistan and Saudi Arabia (she is Pakistani but they met in Saudi Arabia, so I don’t know which passport she carries) do allow women to be covered for their passports. The passports have to meet international standards, but perhaps those countries allow something other than pictures? Fingerprints, DNA samples? Not every country requires the 2" photo ‘with right ear visible.’ Her US visa might have a better picture because US sets those requirements, but maybe the state department may not have released that photo yet.

I wonder if she has a drivers license? She would have to have an uncovered photo for that wouldn’t she?

Don’t worry, they don’t think you are a terrorist. They probably just think you are a swinger or a drug dealer. :wink:

Some would say that the amount of ammunition that they had was abnormal and many news reports in all kinds of outlets featured that. My point was that in this country it isn’t abnormal. It is not a red flag. I find that unfortunate, but that’s just me.

Some interesting background . . .

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-san-bernardino-shooter-endured-turbulent-home-life-according-to-court-documents-20151203-story.html

Not in the least. This need for moral relativism still is masking people’s thinking.

I will ask it this way, "What normal American supposedly living the American dream and working in a normal American job for years with normal American friends suddenly turns around and kills people in the name of Christianity? I do not mean anti-government weirdos; I mean common everyday people with kids and a regular life who look at the BIble and then decides my regular American life is no more and my destiny is to kill people in the name of Christianity? They may exist, but I do not know of any. Dear was a looney bin for decades and lived a weird life so much so people avoided him, not to mention his police record. I expect someone who puts a tin sheet over his house to hide from government spying believes a lot of nonsense.

In contrast, there are endless articles about how normal and even wonderful many of Islamic terrorists were / are and no one had a clue. That is something that is seriously wrong when someone can spin on a dime to become a killer in the name of religion, which is what is occurring here.

When normal everyday Americans who are not mentally-ill or have police records, turn around and one day start using Christianity as the motive to kill innocents, then it is clear that is Christian-based terrorism. But, choosing crazy people and mentally-ill people and comparing them to normal people who turn on a dime based on a religious quest is far fetched.

I was at the gym this evening and this was big topic of conversation. And, as usual, someone mentioned the need for gun control. And he was asked, “How did extreme gun control help the people in Paris besides ensuring that no one could fire back until the police came, thus given the terrorists ample time to shot and reload several times?” Got no answer of course because clearly the terrorists and criminals will still get their guns.

And that is the problem gun control advocates are going to have - people see the TV and they see other countries that get hit by terrorists and only the terrorists have guns and the people are fish in a barrel with no chance, Gun control advocates are going to have to convince over 50% of the people that it is better to be like fish in a barrel than having a fighting chance to get out with their lives. No way that many people want to be fish in a barrel.

““How did extreme gun control help the people in Paris besides ensuring that no one could fire back until the police came, thus given the terrorists ample time to shot and reload several times?” Got no answer of course because clearly the terrorists and criminals will still get their guns.”

Guns wouldn’t have helped those folks in Paris or in the same scenario here. You want everybody packing at a concert?!? Even in the USA, that’s not a scenario that’s going to happen.

Despite our liberal gun laws and how many people seem to own guns, I’m trying to think of a mass shooting in this country when a civilian has saved people/himself because they had a gun…Nope, not thinking of any. I think that logic is skewed.

And as someone who goes to a lot of concerts with mosh pits and people on heavy drugs, I don’t want those people packing thank you very much. Especially when we’re all bumping into each other.

Are you saying the Army of God is not Christian, awc? Or they’re not terrorists?

I am still trying to understand your logic, but I admit I may never. You say we should outlaw guns - OK, that is your belief. But then you state that the overly militarized police force is killing people. It may just be me, but why in the world would someone say that the police force is wantonly killing people, and then suggest that the people be disarmed and totally at the mercy of said overly militarized police force? Sounds like a death wish if the police get out of hand. And there is one thing police forces know - if they over do it and get out of hand, there are citizens who can and will stop them in their tracks - just as it should be.

I do not say everybody packing, as many do not, but a few would have been whole lot more helpful than standing around like fish in barrel for 30 minutes getting shot at. Americans are not going to stand for such a scenario. Plus, there are armed security guards at American concerts and such events. The gun laws made it so there were none of those either, as such guards are not allowed to have guns.

The terrorists in Paris were a long standing fairly hardened cell it appears. They had external planning and training and supply of some sort. These shooters had no need of on site outside help. In our country anyone who gets an idea can do this same thing. It takes no special effort aside from desire. While it seems now that he was in some communication with outsiders, he wouldn’t have had to be. As a longer term thing going forward it’s much harder to foil potential attacks that are perpetrated by individuals. None of the monitoring techniques help much in those cases. Bringing down an airplane or launching a series of simultaneous, coordinated attacks is one thing but people could do this kind of thing all day long.