You are doing the natural thing and projecting your humanity on her, which may not applicable. She does not need a heart of stone, just a different view of kids. These are the same people who teach 5 year-olds to behead dolls as practice for the real thing. Therefore, I do not think they view babies and kids the way we do.
I am wondering if there are taboos within Islam that could be used to advantage by the authorities, after incidents such as this, that might discourage some future would-be terrorists. For example, are there ceremonies associated with burial that, if not done, are considered to cause great shame to the individual? We have, dare I say it, glamorous coverage of these shooters as they being pursued by the police. I’m sure that’s being used by ISIS now as part of its recruiting propaganda. Are there humiliating and shaming details that the authorities could release to the recruitment websites?
“It’s not two separate problems, though. It’s terrorists who are American and our lax gun laws giving them all the weaponry they need to wreak havoc. Access to assault weapons and endless rounds of ammunition are not irrelevant side issues”
While these issues are intermingled, they are not the same problem. A couple of days ago the terrorists used guns to massacre, tomorrow they might use biological weapons, dirty bombs, or poison the water supply. This issue is one of stopping terrorism, doing what we can, right now.
People who are pretending that we would not be threatened by terrorists if we could just change the gun laws are deluding themselves. Changing the conversation from what this specific problem stemmed from, will not help us stop terrorism.
@busdriver11, I believe many of us would like to have a conversation about the overwhelming number of mass shootings this year (more than one per day this year). That may be separate from the conversation about terrorism, but every bit as important.
The ATF says that the guns used here weren’t legally obtained.
I just read a very interesting article at the NY Times by a contributor from Mother Jones which says that number is completely wrong.
From what I’ve read, these terrorists are not concerned about outsiders’ interpretations of their religion. And that includes interpretations by their nominal co-religionists, normal Muslims. Regular, normal Muslims say it’s forbidden to kill innocents, but these terrorists stick to their video-game interpretation of their religion. They’re not listening to people outside their terrorist bubble.
@CardinalFang “So if we’re blaming the family of these terrorists, why aren’t we blaming the woman that Christian terrorist Robert Dear lived with? She didn’t alert authorities either.”
Seems like it is on your To Do List to make a post about “Christian Terrorists” at least once a day, usually more. Congrats, you can check it off for today.
Splitting hairs, perhaps, but the ATF said the guns were obtained legally but that their use is illegal in California. They were modified in ways that are not legal in California.
From the article:
“For example, are there ceremonies associated with burial that, if not done, are considered to cause great shame to the individual? We have, dare I say it, glamorous coverage of these shooters as they being pursued by the police. I’m sure that’s being used by ISIS now as part of its recruiting propaganda. Are there humiliating and shaming details that the authorities could release to the recruitment websites?”
If people in authority here in the USA did that, wouldn’t that in fact give ISIS and other extremists MORE propaganda? More reasons to spew their hatred for us, about how evil we are?
Let’s not stoop to their level.
You know, the NRA wouldn’t necessarily lose any clout or money with expanded gun control measures:
- If a FFL has to sign off on every gun transfer or sale, we're going to need more FFLs. Aside from the smack in the arm from the extra jobs, the NRA could take advantage of this by providing FFL info to those who desire the job. Those prospective FFLs might need gun training too and will check out the NRA for info on classes. That means more clicks on the NRA web site, which means more traffic for advertisers, which means higher advertising rates charged by NRA.
- Another group adding to the clicks on the NRA web site would be those who are seeking info on the changes as they develop, seeing NEA as a resource. They might see NRA as a good source for such info. Certainly NRA would be keeping up with the developments and reporting them on the web site.
- Some people will hurry out to buy guns as the background check changes, crackdown on unethical sales, increase in FFLs (etc.) are unfolding (may take years). Many will incorrectly believe this is the first step in the obliteration of the 2nd Amendment. So I wouldn't be surprised if gun sales increased, at least in the short term. The NRA wouldn't mind that one bit. Maybe an increase in NRA members too, people wanting to feed the dragon in hopes it will protect them. (overreaction, but NRA won't mind the extra members)
So – probably nobody from
NRA will read this, but some gun control measures wouldn’t necessarily hurt the NRA. They might actually prosper with the increased safety measures.
Many strange bits and pieces here that are hard to fathom. The hardest by far for me is how a couple with a 6 month old baby would embark on essentially a suicide mission.
Why thank you, always good to know my efforts are appreciated.
I’m struggling with the contradiction between a woman perhaps not being permitted to show her face and hair in public (because of religion) but abandoning her child and murdering people (presumably against her religion).
Maybe if you’ll concede the term “faux Christian terrorists” the naming/labeling controversy will cease. Hehe
I just watched the press conference, where the FBI officially declared this terrorism and is taking over the investigation. Spokesperson said that the FBI was done searching the apartment and had taken everything they needed, so it is no longer a crime scene. He also said this apartment was being lived in by the couple, and was not just a location for making bombs.
As for the FB posting, it was done moments before the attack, so it hadn’t been up long enough to prompt any investigation, and I think she took it down almost immediately.
Has anyone heard of ISIS taking credit for this? You’d think if they were directly responsible they would have been trumpeting this fact all over the Internet.
No credit taken by ISIS. I assume the couple were wannabe, copycat sympathizers.
On the day of the attack, I saw a post somewhere (Twitter or some other site) which purported to show an Arabic internet post congratulating ISIS’s brothers in carrying out the attack. I’ve never seen this in any press reporting.
Found this from a search:
http://thefederalist.com/2015/12/03/isis-celebrates-san-bernadino-shooting/
Seems some have forgotten that all it took to kill nearly 3,000 people on 9/11 were box cutters and rudimentary flying skills.
Terrorists bombs have killed thousands (the first WTC bombing, Lockerbie, London, Madrid, Moscow, Beirut) and then there were the would be bombers like the shoe bomber and the underwear bomber.
It seems to me more effective to target the people rather than the inanimate objects. Unless we rid the world of biologics, gunpowder, all firearms, all forms of explosives, like otherwise harmless fertilizers, etc. (which is impossible) terrorists will be able to find a way.
The focus should be on what is effective, not what is a political motive.
“@busdriver11, I believe many of us would like to have a conversation about the overwhelming number of mass shootings this year (more than one per day this year). That may be separate from the conversation about terrorism, but every bit as important.”
I agree, @movemetoo, and think that is why, when the national conversation instantly moved to gun violence and gun control that we all jumped on talking about the same thing. Most everyone has a strong opinion on it, and it’s easy to get us talking about that.
But when you think of it, why aren’t we really focusing on the problem of terrorists, ISIS in our midst? What is it going to take? Why act like this massacre was just like all the rest? Because it is different, isn’t it? This is an ideology that is spreading, and these people would enjoy the destruction of all of us. It involves a large network, and people who might spend years planning.
I’m wondering if this is just opportunist by those who are leading this national conversation, or if it’s that people are afraid to talk about this. Or they think it’s not really a problem, let’s ignore what’s going on in the rest of the world.