<p>[BBC</a> NEWS | Europe | Sarkozy speaks out against burka](<a href=“http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8112821.stm]BBC”>BBC NEWS | Europe | Sarkozy speaks out against burka)</p>
<p>Finally, we have a world leader who is willing to say publicly what millions of women have been saying for years; the Muslim world is grossly anti-woman’s rights. IMO, it’s way beyond time for this debate to go public and mainstream.</p>
<p>i think the policy of banning them is grossly inappropriate and will greatly anger the substantial french muslim population. if a woman decides that she wants to humble herself before Allah by dressing this modestly, it most certainly ought be her right. The EU prolly has policies against banning such things.</p>
<p>"In a major policy speech, he said the burka - a garment covering women from head to toe - reduced them to servitude and undermined their dignity.
Mr Sarkozy also gave his backing to the establishment of a parliamentary commission to look at whether to ban the wearing of burkas in public.
Wearing of the veil is already outlawed in France’s state schools.
“We cannot accept to have in our country women who are prisoners behind netting, cut off from all social life, deprived of identity,” Mr Sarkozy told a special session of parliament in Versailles.
“That is not the idea that the French republic has of women’s dignity.
“The burka is not a sign of religion, it is a sign of subservience. It will not be welcome on the territory of the French republic,” the French president said.”</p>
<p>I think what he said was inappropriate. If women want to wear that garment, it’s their business.</p>
<p>Would he have said the same about nuns who choose to wear habits? After all, nuns are subservient to priests.</p>
<p>habits and burqas are rather different.</p>
<p>you can see a nun’s face in her habits.</p>
<p>but the french gov still has no business banning it.</p>
<p>according to reuters, girls can’t even wear hijab in schools.</p>
<p>You folks are all pretty quick to condemn the government of France without addressing any historical/cultural perspectives. You should know that while France has longstanding Catholic traditions, since the revolution public has been distrustful of religious intrusion into secular life.</p>
<p>And the same goes in some Latin American nations. It may still be true that in Mexico Catholic priests were forbidden from wearing their robes at public/government/secular events. That’s my understanding.</p>
<p>Well, as far as the middle east i have a bit of exp. in that area. Im currently on my 3rd tour of iraq. Here all a man has to do is say “i divorce you” to his wife 3 times and she is shamed and legally divorced. So the pressure to conform is greater than in more liberal countries. So until the women who are subject to this treatment realize that they have the right to change with out fear of legal reprocussion. I fear nothing will change.</p>
<p>Shinobi, this law wouldn’t give women the right to change without fear of legal repercussion. It would force them to change or fear legal repercussion.</p>
<p>I think this a a very difficult line-drawing situation. What cultural practices prevalent in other countries should be unwelcome or prohibited in a Western democracy? What about, say, polygamy? I tend to think that Sarkozy is wrong in this particular case, but drawing the line isn’t simple.</p>
<p>^that’s a good point. it’s a rather objective thing, but it’s obvious to me that banning the burqa and even banning hijab in schools is just over the line.</p>
<p>seriously, isn’t there something in the EU charter against this?</p>
<p>“Mr Sarkozy also gave his backing to the establishment of a parliamentary commission to look at whether to ban the wearing of burkas in public.”</p>
<p>This seems is what I disagree with.</p>
<p>To paraphrase Norman Davies, a historian and social commentator, one should never underestimate the sense of invasion that a dominant culture experiences when visible changes occur.</p>
<p>The French have the right to decide the attributes they consider essential to being French. People who don’t like that can live elsewhere.</p>
<p>Do you think that these women are willingly wearing their burkas or hijabs? Some may, some may not, but would any of you feel differently if these women were being coerced via the religion to adopt certain habits? Given how women are treated within Islam and how they are permitted (or not) to interact with others, I truly doubt the level of free choice that they have in making this fashion choice.</p>
<p>Good for Sarkozy and good for France.</p>
<p>Do you know them? My best friend is a Muslim who doesn’t wear hijab, burka, or any kind of veil. She does take her religion seriously and doesn’t touch pork or alcohol, has researched Islam, and it is a very personal decision. Her mother is a college professor who teaches gender studies. Yes, there is some oppression of women in Islam, and yes, some women (in Iran for example) are not free to make the choice, but many women have complete freedom and do choose to cover their hair. I don’t know why we would assume that it’s a sign of repression any more than we would assume that women in a religion that does not permit them to wear shorts or short sleeves (many Mormons that a friend of mine knows, as one example) are oppressed.</p>
<p>There is a discrimination lawsuit going on right now in either New Jersey or Michigan (I can’t remember which) wherein a woman is fighting her firing from her job as a corrections officer. The prison wouldn’t give her a waiver to allow her to wear an Islamic veil covering much of her face, as I recall. There was also the case not long ago wherein a state declined to issue a driver’s license to a woman who refused to remove her burka-like veil for her driver’s I.D. photograph. In both of these and in similar cases, I believe “the state” does have some justification for such limitations.</p>
<p>Not sure why Sarko wants to fight these culture wars, but he seems to have limitless energy for it.</p>
<p>I think that if suddenly you started to see large numbers of women walking around malls, cities and other public areas in the U.S. completely covered from head to toe you would see why this could be considered kind of disturbing. Even those who say “if they want to wear it, it’s nobody else’s business” might reassess.</p>
<p>Hijab/niqab is one thing, but burka is an entirely different matter. It seems to send the message “I have no desire to get to know you, nor do I care that you can’t recognize or communicate with me”. It seems a little antisocial. Quite apart from any religious sensitivities it calls into question what it means to be a member of the community or culture.</p>
<p>Burqa is not particularly Islamic and not mentioned in the Quran, by the way. It is one of those Sharia law impositions that are invented by some people for their own purposes. Kinda like clothing restrictions in the Orthodox Jewish, Amish, Mormon, or any other faith, but with the added dimension of removing the entire person from sight.</p>
<p>AnudduhMom, you do make a good point. I will admit I was kind of confusing the veil an burka issue (thinking he and people on this thread were fighting both) but they are, in fact, completely different Although it is still religious freedom, I think. (But I don’t know much about religious freedom in France, or what the norms are).</p>
<p>eire,
I would agree that in a free society like the USA, women should have all of the room they desire to make this choice and particularly so with the hijab. My fear, however, is that in less free societies, Muslim women don’t have the same freedoms and nowhere near the same degree of autonomy that they have here. I think that this is very much the case in many of the Middle Eastern countries. Even in France, which is heavily segregated with Muslims living mostly to themselves, I would question how much true freedom these Muslim women have in their decision to wear the burka.</p>