<p>You’re the one who won’t discuss ALL of the situation. You continue to give Savannah Dietrich a free pass on her actions. </p>
<p>I’m not saying what these two boys did was right. Not once have I said that. But just because they committed those acts does not give her the right to commit the acts that she has done.</p>
<p>If the boys had been the ones that were raped, had photographs taken of the event, and had shared those photographs shared by their rapists with their friends - then they would have been victims. As it is, they are not the victims here.</p>
<p>Not even to consider discussing what the boys did to the victim…</p>
<p>The boys gave up any expectation of privacy when THEY disseminated the pictures they took themselves.</p>
<p>They don’t want their lives ruined? They don’t want their names out there for others to come across in the future?</p>
<p>Where is that different than what Savannah will continue to face in the future? Those pictures are out there in cyberspace and it’s not like they can be reeled back in and permanently removed from view.</p>
<p>You know that old saying about karma? That it has a way of biting you in the butt?</p>
<p>What does the issue of the party/alcohol have to do with the sexual assault of this girl? Did she force excessive amounts of alcohol down these boys’ throats knowing that would lead them to violate her? Is it a foregone conclusion that all 16-year-old boys abuse their female classmates when they are under the influence?</p>
<p>And yes, she does have the right to “out” her attackers. She was willing to risk doing jail time to prove her point. If the court had agreed with you, she would have been found guilty of whatever crime related to her actions. It didn’t. You are wrong.</p>
<p>Hops, I assume you have sons. Now, lets assume that one of your sons, age 16, gets drunk. I know, I know, you are convinced that none of your children will ever, ever do it, but just live my fantasy. While he’s passed out, someone takes off his clothes, sticks something into his anus, takes pictures and shares them. They tell people that your son posed for the pictures. Indeed, when your son begs them to stop sharing the photos, they tell him that he agreed they could take them while he was drunk and so he has no right to stop them. Now, please tell me that when you go to the cops with him, you will INSIST that he be charged with a minor in possession offense before any charges are brought against the people who did this to your son. Remember at that point, there’s no guarantee that any case can be made against the people who did this to your son. If you aren’t confident that you will insist that your son be charged with a MIP and public intoxication , then you are a hypocrite.</p>
<p>Free pass?!!! Would you think your son had gotten a “free pass” for underage drinking if this happened to him? If not, then why the heck do you think Savannah did? IMO, she’s been punished enough.</p>
<p>And, of course, if this were “the LAW”–to use your term–I’m sure lots of victims would come forward and report what happened to them, right? But after all, it is MUCH more important to punish kids for underage drinking than it is to prosecute people who take advantage of drunken kids.</p>
<p>That’s funny. For some reason I always thought hops was a person around my age. Whoops.</p>
<p>hops_scout, “insensitive” is far too kind a term for what you’ve been doing on this thread. You’ve been engaged in rape apologism and victim-blaming, pure and simple. It’s disgusting, and it’s all too common.</p>
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<p>Don’t forget that vagina hops! She provided these things so what’s a boy to do?</p>
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<p>WHOA totally missed this gem. </p>
<p>She “got hurt” implies that it was an accident. If she fell down a flight or stairs or something from her drunken stupor, then she “got hurt”. </p>
<p>But NO. Someone DID this to her. It’s not a “got hurt” it’s “somebody HURT HER”. Somebody violated her, took pictures of it, and spread them numerous times. </p>
<p>Wow. Just wow. Disgusting.</p>
<p>^^^^^Ditto</p>
<p>Never in my life would I think that having a party and providing booze is justification for rape. Incredible.</p>
<p>romani, looks like you’re right. I owe an apology to all mothers of sons :)!</p>
<p>I have all sons so I am obviously not of the mindset that it is always the boy that should be blamed. Drunk students do stupid things and when both students are drunk and do stupid things (e.g., have sex), I don’t have sympathy for either of them.**(see below)</p>
<p>But that is not the situation here…the victim was not a participant in a common act, she was basically unconscious and she was violated, and she did not say, hey take pictures of what you are doing to me and send them out!</p>
<p>**a few years ago, one of my sons had to take one of those alcohol awareness classes before he could register for classes as a freshman. One of the scenarios was the a female student invited a male student to a party at her sorority house. The sorority supplied alcohol, and both students were drinking. The girl invited the boy up to her room, and supplied both of them with more alcohol from her personal stash up in her room. Both students were equally drunk. They had (consensual at that time) sex. They went to breakfast together the next day. He thought things were fine between them. Later that day, she decided that she regretted the night before, and filed charges against him.</p>
<p>Under the code on campus, he was guilty because since she was drunk, she was incapable of giving consent. The fact that he was equally drunk was no defense. Neither was the fact that she supplied all of the alcohol for both of them.</p>
<p>This scenario was a big wake up call to my son, and I discussed this with each of them. I have problems with this, because I think each is equally responsible in this scenario–but this is what it is, and I wanted my boys to be sure they didn’t cross any lines in such a situation.</p>
<p>@jonri- I was discussing this with my bf’s mom (she has three boys, no girls). Her response was that in no way would her children get any support from her if they ever did anything like this. They would also quickly be looking for somewhere else to live. Alcohol is not an excuse. Period. </p>
<p>She has raised three great men if I do say so myself. </p>
<p>I can’t imagine how the parents of these boys must feel. I just can’t. There’s the maternal instinct to protect your son and then the revulsion by what they did. It’s gut-wrenching to me. Then again, I have a conscious and some people just don’t (and in no way and I’m saying the parents of these boys don’t. I honestly know NOTHING about them.).</p>
<p>boys, those situations are just as sickening to me. It hurts both sexes. Men because they can be hit with rape charges when they thought there was consent (even if it was drunken consent) and women because when a rape DOES happen (and not just regret), there is quite often victim-blaming. Everyone loses.
I think scenarios like that are why I’ve never found the appeal in drinking with strangers. Too many things can go wrong. Both sexes need to protect themselves. So sad.</p>
<p>Boysx3, “consensual at that time” is doing a lot of work in your anecdote. What does it mean? She said Yes and participated with enthusiasm? Or, She was not comatose, quite, and she didn’t push him away? Because I’d draw the line somewhere in between those, and I think most other people would, too. </p>
<p>Though apparently hops thinks that being unconscious counts as consent to having sex (or being photographed with someone’s hands in your vagina). It’s a peculiar belief, but unfortunately one that others share.</p>
<p>hops, I see that you are an athletic trainer at the high school in your community. I have no idea if you are a parent or not. But you clearly sympathize with the jock mentality that all too often leads to girls being exploited. I am sure in rural Illinois you are not alone in your thinking. But it’s 2012. The coaches and trainers my son has had for his sports (rugby, soccer and cross country) have done an amazing job developing boys into strong young men who take responsibility for their actions and “man up” when they make mistakes. You could take the high road and do that too. Or you could just keep blaming the victim of a couple of irresponsible, selfish, entitled brats. Your choice.</p>
<p>CF, that was my problem with the scenario too…from the scenario, it seemed that if anything the girl was the initiator–and yet…</p>
<p>my boys know that no is no…but find it confusing that a yes at the time can still get them in trouble…because two drunk, addled brains are involved.</p>
<p>They obviously know that a drunk girl is not giving effective consent, the problem is when both are equally drunk and not capable of serious thought (and I have told them that is an excellent reason not to get drunk–so they keep their wits and good judgment with them), and even a girl apparently “enthusiastic” (but drunk) …can get them in to deep trouble.</p>
<p>But like I noted above, of course none of this applies to the situation we are discussing.</p>
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<p>So…the homeless alcoholics who get beaten up and/or murdered are asking for it, too? It’s okay to perpetrate a crime on someone too drunk to defend him or herself?</p>
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<p>I’m glad the law only applies when the person breaking it is not a “victim.” Never once have I said the boys had any excuse for their actions. Not once. Show us. What I said is that if she broke the law, then she should be charged. It should certainly be learning experience for everyone.</p>
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<p>I’m sure you have proof of me saying that…</p>
<p>Savannah Dietrich was a minor who consumed alcohol. That is against the law. She also provided other minors alcohol. That is against the law. Was she charged?</p>
<p>They weren’t caught in the act of underage drinking so prosecuting that would be difficult.</p>
<p>On the matter of everyone being drunk, that is typically not an excuse to get you off the hook and they presumably weren’t drunk when they passed the pictures around.</p>
<p>Ah… so only females can be victims, huh?</p>
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<p>Last time I looked getting drunk and passing out, while stupid and possibly illegal depending on one’s age, did not constitute consent to removing one’s clothing, inserting fingers into one’s vagina, and posting pictures of said acts to the internet.</p>