schedules conflict - not allowed to take both AP Chem and AP Physics 1

I cant believe that is true, because if it was 1) They would ask on the app and 2) lookingforward would quote and post it! :wink: I am sure you are not suggesting it would be a better world if no kids got extra tutoring so colleges could judge them more easily?

And I am asking where folks who claim the op was “cheating” think that line is, and no one has answered.

As far as I know, my school has not such requirement, in fact, I think they don’t want to know about it.
I have a special needs kid who took an online course, got an A. I told the school, sent them the transcript, it was never attached to my special needs’ school transcript.

Oh my, I guess I’m worse than the OP my DS20 will have covered about half the classes he’ll be taking in 9th grade. He was homeschooled and I allowed him to work at whatever level he was ready for but the public school does not recognize his homeschool credits because they are not from an accredited school. I guess I’m off the hook for reporting his homeschool class on his college apps since he did them in middle school. Based on my experience with my other two children that took a similar path, the courses will be different enough that he won’t be bored or have an unfair advantage.

@mathyone please read the sequence of posts
 I am so sorry that you felt DD has an “unfair advantage”

@annamom I don’t necessarily see it as “cheating.” The fact you paid a high amount doesn’t change the fact many kids can take a local summer class, some at much lower cost, to prep for the fall. And sure, some kids get private help over the summer.

And plenty of kids benefit from free mentoring programs or from local kids who do it as community service. Or the sort of online reviews that are free and anonymous. Any “advantage” is in the learning, not that one family can afford a higher price tag.

LOL @3scoutsmom. There are always exceptions. And yes, my son did find AP CS easier as a freshman than his classmates because he knew much of the material already. He said in retrospect he should have just taken the exam.

There’s limited space on the Common Application in any event, so if the Berlitz class got left off because other more interesting stuff was on, no issues. But I wouldn’t leave it off because I think nearly all admissions officers would consider it a big plus. So it would go some where even if only in the “is there anything you want to add” section. I don’ think any Admissions Office would rescind an application for that reason - even if the language grade went from C’s to A’s and there was no explanation.

@Postmodern - I believe that they do (elite colleges have ways of determining those things I listed) - such as, asking recommenders to comment and evaluate personal characteristics like reslilience, integrity, perseverence, respect for others and the school community, etc. And one reason to ask about ECs and summer activities is to see what was filling that time/effort.

As teachers we are reminded to mention in letters if a kid never did any grade-grubbing. Kids who don’t get that notation are assumed to be more grade-focused than learning-focused. And by the way, don’t think that just because you don’t ask the teacher in question for the LoR, that it won’t go into the letter: there are faculty meetings and discussions and also a general GC letter where the GC solicits feedback from all of the student’s teachers. I’m sure one bad relationship won’t make an impact, but if there’s a pattern, it gets incorporated (good or bad).

I’ll take a stab at the moral line:

  1. I think if you do something you want to hide from the AdComs, it's probably questionable. (I assume there are exceptions like if you vote for someone opposed to what the AdCom happens to believe or something)

and

  1. I think if you are asking for a LoR from a teacher (who must evaluate not only your grade but what went into it) that you should disclose any extra help, pre-teaching, whatever, or it's a dishonest representation of how you did what you did in that class. The grade per se is all the transcript needs, but if you want the teacher to say more, you need to be fully honest. Just like you want her to be honest to give context e.g. "this was a hard class with tough grading, but so-and-so got a great grade"...

I must have missed something
 I don’t think it was part of the discussion.

What exactly should the kid let the teacher know

The kid practices 4 days/week (should be 7)
spends 6 hours with EMS, 4 hours in a hospital, takes a decent work load, but because she spent 4 hours a day in the summer for 6 week to pre-learn the material, she only needs to spend 30 minutes every night during the school year, and no wonder she passes the course (hopefully an A)
 LOL


@fretfulmother BTW, I have told her current teacher that she took the summer course in Chemistry 
I didn’t know it would have affected the teacher’s view on her :expressionless: (this wasn’t the first time, she took another course earlier) but probably I should have brought up everything she did whenever I mentioned summer course
I may also include my own resume, or how much we save as she definitely benefits from it.

I’ve had the same problem at my school but after my parents and teacher talked to my guidance counselor, she agreed that I could take both classes, although later I decided to take only AP chem. Many people in my school are taking AP Physics next year without taking regular physics first and they seem to be fine. I wish guidance counselors would give advice and encourage students to take interesting and challenging classes, but at least at my school it’s the exact opposite.

My daughter’s public HS stopped this summer gaming by not letting the kids retake a HS class they had already taken over the summer - the summer class went on their transcript (although I don’t think the grade was included in their GPA) and then the pre-taking of math and science classes over the summer stopped. It had become a lucrative business for a local prep school. Did kids continue to take these classes and not own up to it - don’t know?

I would take the Chem junior year and physics senior year. I would double check unis under consideration
not many require SAT 2s anymore. Not “owning” up to academics taken outside of the high school is unethical in my opinion. “Doing it” to boost a grade doesn’t bother me although the ROI is probably minuscule in the big picture.

With all due respect @annamom , that was not what you originally stated. Whether or not your D gets credit, your goal seems to be that she uses the summer course in order to accelerate her science sequence. At least that was my interpretation.

I can’t believe it
 the discussion (or accusations ) went from “unfair advantage” to “legal cheating” and now to “not owning up to it”
 
anyway keep them coming LOL

Why not just have her use the summer class for credit in physics? AP physics 1 and 2 are not especially useful for subject credit in college anyway. If the summer class in physics is a good quality class equivalent to a year long high school physics course, it should be good preparation for the SAT subject test in physics and (along with calculus) as preparation for physics in college, should she take it then. Then she will have extra schedule space to take whatever academic electives she wants.

A high school record with regular biology, chemistry, and physics, plus AP chemistry (four years total including all three of the core sciences) should be perfectly fine for college admission and preparation to take any of the sciences in college if she wants to do so.

@skieurope

my question referred to your comment

I do not see how a school can set up policies on not allowing a student to take a course outside of school hours and in the summer, paid for by the parent, not for school credit, 
I am interested in such policy
can you point me to a policy? I thought we live in United States or some third world communist country
Do I have to ask permission to send my kid to summer camp which may give them an advantage in varsity sport
 and BTW (not that I am interested in), there is big money for sports scholarship, it certainly gives her an “unfair” advantage as someone put it.

I am not sure what you meant by “accelerate her science sequence”
the school offers Physics and AP Physics 1, there is no honor, I do not see any problem with her (or many of her peers) taking AP Physics1 which she is eligibility for.

Hypothetically, instead of enrolling her in summer school, I hire a private tutor to teach her the same during Summer
 What about hiring a private tutor during the school year? Will it make a difference?

@momofthreeboys can you elaborate your opinion please?

@annamom And my original comment was based upon your comment:

No school cares what a kid does over the summer, and is certainly not going to tell a kid that they can’t take a non-credit course, or that they can’t go to summer camp.

However, if the school has policies that apply during the academic year, like only taking one science course, there should be no expectation that a school will override the policy based upon summer activities. Some might, some might not. If that’s not what’s happening at your D’s school, then I am just totally confused with what you are really asking.

I am still not sure why people are so fire up about a kid taking a summer course
In my opinion or at least in my experience, cramming a year’s material in a 6 week is not a replacement for a year’s work, however, IMO, it helps the kid to better prepared for the course or it makes it easier for the kid (yes, I knew some of you felt strongly that this kid may not even qualify for STEM major, feel free to apply a job in the admission office and be the gatekeeper for denying kids who have an “unfair” advantage)


that’s exactly my point, the school has no such policy that a kid can only take one science course.