School in the 2020-2021 Academic Year & Coronavirus (Part 1)

We talked about online classes as if they were the same. They aren’t. A few differences:

  1. Smaller synchronous online classes can be interactive while large or asynchronous online classes can’t. Interactivity is important for certain types of courses and certain types of students.

  2. Who teaches matters. Some professors are better teachers whether online or in-person. Some are more experienced with the online format because they have taught online classes on Coursera, edX, etc. Some have always recorded their in-person lectures for their students.

  3. If the materials covered are different when the course was given in-person, they would still be different when given online. Even standard materials can be taught at different depths and paces.

Agree, but this has been a key differentiator, in some cases, for LACs pre-covid. Courses/students that rely on small classes with high (in-person) interactivity will suffer in an online environment.

Teachers have always mattered. For online learning it up to the school to make sure that the best teachers in-person can shine in an online environment. The schools that can do that (and some are) will benefit (as will their students).

Red flags should go off for any school that says their online classes are not at the same rigor. If it is not, then the class should not be held.

@Rivet2000 huh? S19’s small classes at his LAC have been very good online. One class has 12 kids and operates almost exactly like real class. His math class with 20 kids is the same and the prof added mandatory study groups of four that meet twice weekly virtually alone and then for 30 minutes with her each week. I would think it’s large classes that suffer unless you just mean a large class isn’t that much different online because it’s already impersonal.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/29/sunday-review/zoom-video-conference.html?smid=fb-nytopinion&smtyp=cur

This is why online class is horrible. It’s impersonal. Even in the best cases when professors are trying very hard to be innovative and personal, it’s not the same. S19 appreciates his profs trying but he hates sitting at home staring at his screen.

The key phrase was/is “in-person”.

@Rivet2000 ah yes. This is true. In person where conversations can be more organic. It’s just not the same staring at ten people faces on a screen. If a student doesn’t need or want all of that personal in-person interaction then class is likely fine for them online as long as the rigor is there.

@homerdog Sounds like Bowdoin is having a much better time with online classes than Amherst.

My humanities classes have been very unproductive (as a whole, not just for me in particular), and have shifted from engaging group-wide discussions to the professor just lecturing us with a handful of students occasionally chiming in to give their take.

In my 115-person Gen Chem 2 class, they are actually doing a pretty good job for lectures; they are doing asynchronous learning by giving us lecture slides with voice-overs and giving us questions in between; however, the small discussion sections are not as interactive as they used to be and for labs we are just given the data and graphs and we do the pre-lab write-up and the post-lab questions/calculations, so overall the quality of the class has definitely dropped. My professors have actually made both our second midterm (all tests at Amherst are called midterms) and our final exam open-book without changing the format or difficulty level of the exams because they know it is not the same.

My linear algebra class has not really changed, because that class wasn’t too interactive to begin with, so nothing lost there. The only thing that has changed was our occasional computational modeling labs (only did four this entire semester) were put on a paper format, so more taxing.

So overall, all of my classes have suffered a large quality drop with the exception of Linear Algebra, which has only had a slight quality drop.

I think a lot of schools will look to what like schools are doing for the fall. Schools in the same league will probably take a similar approach to that of their peers. No one wants to be the odd man out.

At this point there are a lot of ideas being thrown about.

My prediction-

Most schools will open on time with a combination of in-person and online classes. Probably in person lectures taped so they can be watched at home by students who opt to do so. No refund or a token refund for taking classes on line, or a room and board only refund for students who for reasons of health (immunocompromised, or in another high risk category) or international status (can’t get a US visa, etc.) cannot attend in person.

Some schools will open on time with the first semester split into two modules. If things go haywire on or both could be put on line.

A few schools will opt to open late to allow for more time for the development of treatments and to give themselves time to plan for the resumption of classes. They’ll adjust their schedules by doing things like doing away with or shortening January terms, shortening Christmas break, or extending classes a couple of weeks beyond the usual end of the year. A smaller group will give a summer option for students not willing to come on campus in the fall.

The vast majority of kids will opt to start school on time. There aren’t a lot of attractive alternative options right now. No one wants to be backpacking through Europe or building orphanages in Rwanda in the midst of a second outbreak. Companies will be too uncertain about their own futures and work plans to be hiring interns. A few families will keep their kids home for a year. At most schools those spots will be easily filled by kids on the waitlist.

Some professors will not be able to teach in person. Older, immunocompromised, or otherwise vulnerable professors will tape their lectures. As much as possible colleges will announce whether particular classes will be in person or on line to give students options. Schools will not penalize these faculty members.

Schools will give up on the idea of serious de-densifying. There’s no way to increase the housing capacity by 100% at the vast majority of schools. Plus, does anyone really think college students aren’t going to congregate? Large classes will be split into smaller sections, no official college large gathering such as dances will be held. Dining seats at each table may be reduced. Otherwise schools will depend largely on personal responsibility. They may require masks but honestly it will be mostly just for show because everyone knows kids aren’t going to wear them 24/7 and how do you eat with a mask on? Perhaps a requirement to wear them in class, but then again, answering questions with a mask on isn’t particularly easy.

Colleges will come up with quarantine options for sick students. They’ll declare a small dorm or other housing the temporary housing for ill students and will have a check-in procedure for those kids to make sure no one falls through the cracks. They may make arrangements with a local hotel or other housing to be the quarantine center.

There will be a trigger point for sending everyone home. 3% of the student body sick, 100 students sick, 20 faculty members, whatever. Although they’ll be determined by the college’s leadership they probably won’t be announced in advance to the community.

Of course all this goes out the window if we see a resurgence of the virus in late summer or early autumn. In that case I predict we’ll see most schools go on line.

What’s your prediction?

Amherst sent out a pretty extensive email last night talking about their planning process. Here were some important pieces:

"Fall Semester

We continue to hope that you will be on campus in the fall and are working hard to understand and create the conditions that would make that possible. However, there is still too much uncertainty for us to make a decision at this point. We know you want a full academic and residential learning experience. We want that for you, too. One way or the other, we take seriously our responsibility to provide the education you need for the next phases of your lives in the safest possible conditions.

There is no zero-risk scenario for residential education, given the absence into the fall semester of a vaccine against COVID-19. We will need to decide how much risk is too much for on-campus learning. Right now we are working to identify the keys to bringing you to campus, while also waiting for the guidance we expect from the state and from the CDC.

Based on what we know now, we would need the availability of reliable, easily administered, and widespread testing for the virus, with a short turnaround time for results. The availability of such testing is increasing by the day. Second, we would need a robust capacity for contact tracing. My conversation last week with Paul Farmer, founder of Partners in Health, gives me some confidence that an effective system could be in place in Massachusetts by fall. Third, we would need to observe some form of social distancing. Ideally, we will have more effective therapeutics even before a vaccine is available, but these alone will not necessarily obviate the need for social distancing precautions. Fourth, the College would need to identify and set aside spaces that would allow us to isolate and care for any student infected with the virus and to quarantine those who have been in contact with the infected person. We are hard at work on arrangements for such spaces.

Alongside the logistics is the “people” piece of the puzzle. There are a number of things we would need to ask of you, based on what we know now. You might need to wear masks everywhere you go and, for your own safety, wear gloves in many contexts. We are acquiring the necessary supplies of these and other items. We may need to require that you limit your movement to on-campus locations only; that you are willing to be tested; that you monitor your temperature; and that you make use of oximeters to track oxygen levels. The most difficult, but equally necessary, responsibility would be your compliance with social distancing guidelines, which will very likely prohibit large gatherings and may significantly limit the number of people with whom you can be in close proximity. We would need to know that you are willing to take these measures in order to protect yourselves, other students, and our faculty and staff. Of course, some of you with health risks and those of you who cannot get to Amherst for other reasons may need to do your work remotely. Even those on campus may still be doing some portion of some courses from locations outside of a traditional classroom, because faculty with underlying health conditions or who are at risk for other reasons may choose to opt out of being in classrooms. We would make accommodations for these and other needs.

We have been discussing a range of possible models for creating meaningful and safer ways of bringing students to campus. Some of you have written to me about the so-called “Beloit model,” which would have you enroll in two courses in each of four seven-week mini-semesters on campus, reducing the disruption to your studies of shifting from one mode of delivery to another. There are other ways to maximize on-campus time by imagining a variety of adjustments to the academic calendar and the traditional cadence of a normal year.

We are keenly aware of the socioeconomic and racial inequities that have been highlighted and heightened by this pandemic. We know we will need to take disparities into account under any circumstances. Some possible scenarios would involve higher costs for travel, for example, and could therefore have the potential to limit options for some of you. In all of our planning, we will take this into account and we will set aside funds to help address these challenges.

What happens if we conclude that it is not safe enough to have students on campus at the beginning of the semester or for the entire fall? To prepare for this possibility, faculty will be working over the summer to develop courses and pedagogies that will greatly enhance what we can offer online. As you know, our faculty had only one week to prepare for the conversion of their in-person instruction to online teaching in March, just as you had only a week to travel and ready yourselves for online learning. In the first survey you filled out, many of you expressed gratitude to your faculty for their extraordinary efforts and their success in making the change and engaging you in your studies. Many of you also lamented the difference between residential learning and learning at a distance. You have made a strong case for the value of residential liberal arts education in your commentary. Should remote learning prove necessary, we will ensure that it does far more than replicate what was possible this spring.

Amherst faculty members are embracing the need for flexibility in course development so they can provide you with an excellent educational experience, regardless of the mode in which it is offered. Disciplines that involve hands-on experiences are harder to reproduce in full online. Some colleges and universities are contemplating credit for science courses in which much of the material is covered remotely, with labs occurring when students are able to be back on campus. In addition to enhancing the classes you might be taking in the fall, if at a distance, we are also organizing out-of-classroom support and community-building opportunities so you can experience as much of the richness of an Amherst education as can be provided remotely.

What about tuition if we are forced to rely on remote learning for the entire semester? I don’t yet have an answer for you on that front, but we are aware of your concerns and are thinking hard about this question."

Translation: ‘We hope to bring you back but are not willing to make a commitment yet. If we return to campus, we may require you to stay on-campus at all times, wear a mask, We are making improvements to the infrastructure to improve education if we have to remain online. I don’t want to tell you that we intend to charge you full tuition for an online fall semester unless we are forced to remain online in fall.’

"Deferrals and Voluntary Leaves

While we hope you will begin or continue your education with your classmates, we also understand that some of you may be considering a voluntary withdrawal or deferral for next semester or next year. If you think this is the best option for you, please contact your class dean for a discussion."

Translation: Either Biddy (president of Amherst College) doesn’t want to break the news to us that they will not allow a gap semester/year without exceptional circumstances and is pawning that off on the class deans to say, or they are going to allow it but try to dissuade us from taking time off in a meeting with the class dean in the event of a fully online semester.

"Student Input into College Decision-Making

As we continue the process of decision-making, I have asked this past year’s AAS president, Avery Farmer, to assist us in establishing a student task force that will help us consider our options and come up with creative solutions to whatever challenges we face. I have no doubt that you may have innovative ideas that have not occurred to us and concerns that we may not have covered. This group would help reach out to the student body as a whole and make your ideas available to the administration. I am grateful to Avery for assuming this responsibility prior to an AAS election. Ultimately, of course, the administration will have to assume responsibility for final decisions, but I would like to have as much student thinking as possible before we assume that responsibility.

Let me conclude by emphasizing again that we are fully evaluating all options for the fall and are committed to providing an excellent education and the best possible student experience, regardless of the forms it takes. We are also committed to keeping you informed and letting you know what’s possible as soon as we have enough information to make a decision. Many colleges and universities have set July 1 or July 15 as deadlines for announcing a decision; I anticipate that this is a likely timeframe for us as well. That is based on the need to have the most reliable information possible about the prevalence and spread of the virus, the availability of testing, the capacity for contact tracing, and best practices with regard to social distancing. I know the uncertainty is extremely difficult and wish we had the information we need to decide now, but I believe it would be irresponsible to make final decisions without knowing more than we do or can at the moment."

Translation: 'We will listen to your opinions, but we are making the decision, not you."

Note that in the prior town hall they indicated a decision would be made around mid-June and the Amherst Association of Students sent out a complaint a few days ago saying that mid-June was “too late” for them to be making decisions about living arrangements for next semester. In this email, they just subtly indicated that they are pushing back that deadline (which some students already thought was too late) from mid-June to July. I don’t know what the reason for the delay is, but some students are not going to be happy (I personally support the delay if having more time to make the decision makes them more likely to allow students to return to campus). My personal guess would be that they intend for us to return but want to put off the call as long as possible; if they made the call that we were returning then they discovered something that made it unsafe and we could not return, the outrage would be much larger than if they had waited to make the call. The opposite is also true to an extent: if they initially said we would be online but then a great development were made that would allow us to return, they could still return us and students would obviously be happy, but they would also probably be somewhat irked due to both the emotional roller coaster they had to endure when they thought it would be online and potential plans (such as an apartment lease that would need to be cancelled) for living next year being disrupted.

@Sue22 I agree with most of your message, but I disagree with a “threshold” at which you send students home; if there is a significant proportion of students on-campus that have the illness, then by sending students home, they would put all the families in danger. I don’t know how they would respond, I just disagree that they would send students home once a significant proportion of students got it.

I think “contact tracing” will be a big problem. For example, a student has been on campus for a few days, asymptomatic, but starts coming down with the the illness (high fever, cough, etc) now the health admins have to track everyone the person came in contact with for the past 2 days. It could be dozens, 50 or even a hundred students. Now you have to quarantine a ton of people for at least 14 days and then test them 2x negative before they can go back to the general population. This quarantining of anyone who has been in contact with the ill student gets big and ugly real fast. Not to mention the students who have been forced to isolate without showing any symptoms. And then after 14 days they come in contact with another students who has the illness and the non-ill student has to isolate again for another 14 days. That’s almost a month of isolation for a kid that doesn’t even have the disease!

I’m more inclined that by fall, take all the necessary precautions, if someone gets sick than isolate that infected person (hopefully medicines will be discovered to work e.g. Remesdivir to lessen symptoms)) until they get better from the illness but don’t isolate anyone and everyone who might possibly have come in contact with the infected person.

Seems impossible to do effective contact tracing especially at large residential colleges (e.g. UT-Austin, UofA, etc).

Thoughts?

@ChemAM i don’t think Bowdoin is any better than Amherst online. I just think S19’s classes are conducive to it and he has professors who have the time to be attentive and creative. (I don’t think any of them have little kids at home etc). He has no lab classes this semester so that helps.

@socaldad2002 i agree. No school is going to quarantine every kid that a newly infected student has been in contact with. That would be impossible! And imagine the push back when those kids have to stay on their dorms and not go to class or leave to eat for 14 days and then don’t even get sick!

@socaldad2002 “Now you have to quarantine a ton of people for at least 14 days and then test them 2x negative before they can go back to the general population”

I believe this type of quarantine will be a thing of the past. With rapid testing, that will not be needed. Kids get a phone app, and anyone who has been close to the kid (who has tested positive) will be immediately tested. Results in less than a day (max). If they are negative, they go back to life, positive, they go to the special Covid dorm/hotel.

I think this will be the way for all of us soon - at work, airports etc. And I think it will work well. Colleges are probably scrambling to acquire the 15 minute abbot testing machines. They can do hundreds of tests, results in less than 15m.

@homerdog Not saying what your saying isn’t true, but my professors are all trying to be conducive and creative, they just can’t make it work. Nothing against my professors, really like all of them.

Contract tracing works and is valuable, even if you can’t find everyone the student was near for even a second. You know who the student’s roommates are, and the lab partners and other classmates in study groups. You know what other students would have been in class with. You can ask the student who they spent time with in outside-of-class activities.

They are not going to expect to identify who the student stood next to in the lunch line or walked past at the library.

[quote=“socaldad2002, post:2052, topic:2088334”]

I think “contact tracing” will be a big problem. For example, a student has been on campus for a few days, asymptomatic, but starts coming down with the the illness (high fever, cough, etc) now the health admins have to track everyone the person came in contact with for the past 2 days. It could be dozens, 50 or even a hundred students. Now you have to quarantine a ton of people for at least 14 days and then test them 2x negative before they can go back to the general population. This quarantining of anyone who has been in contact with the ill student gets big and ugly real fast. Not to mention the students who have been forced to isolate without showing any symptoms. And then after 14 days they come in contact with another students who has the illness and the non-ill student has to isolate again for another 14 days. That’s almost a month of isolation for a kid that doesn’t even have the disease!

I believe Dr. Fauci said not everyone you come in contact with will require quarantine. It depends on the time and closeness of contact.

Contact Tracing can be a tool but at a large campus if someone takes a class with say 75 kids, ( down from the class of 225 for social distancing) and another with 75 kids that starts to multiple pretty damm quick, I really see the bigger issues with dorms and dining rooms, some schools only have one dining hall.

I bet it will all be electronic, location based via an app. Everyone required to have it on campus. The app tracks who you have been close with (within 6 feet) and once someone tests positive it signals to everyone they have been close with for the last few days. Those kids would stop at the health center for a rapid test and go from there. It can be done, and once the app is up and running, not hard or expensive. They need the abbot machines at every school or their equivalent. We need the rapid tests more than anything.

I don’t think that there can be any one-size-fits-all solution for fall semester. The solutions will be as varied as the schools they are designed for.