School in the 2020-2021 Academic Year & Coronavirus (Part 1)

Parents Forum
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Treating a dorm room or suite as a household is different from determining what action to take when someone is contact-traced to someone who is infected (for whatever definition of “contact” is used).

Obviously, if someone in your room or suite is infected, you are a contact who needs to take action to check for your own infection and avoid giving a possible infection to others, the same as if you were in contact with someone outside your room or suite who is infected. Social distancing from all of the latter will minimize that possibility, as well as the possibility of bringing in an infection for your roommates to worry about.

Now, will college students actually social-distance from those whom they do not live with? Can they in some of the more densely packed dorms on some college campuses? Treating an entire floor or dorm building as a “household” becomes too unwieldy for this purpose.

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It appears we have one college student on this thread and a lot of parents speculating. I would love to hear from more students what they want and would be willing to do as well as what they think their population would be up for in terms of in person school.

I happen to think parents are worrying about this a lot more than the students. I think many 20 somethings are pretty much done with this, want their lives back, and are ready to let the chips fall.

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I also find it very sad, but I don’t think we have a choice. If colleges can’t open and resume most of their functions and programs, many will go bankrupt. I don’t know how long each different school could operate at the huge losses they suffered this semester and will suffer this summer. I think for most, it’s too risky financially to be online, even for one more semester.

Already, there are kids who can’t attend a residential college for all kinds of reasons (even health reasons) which are not their fault. I hope that this pandemic will actually make online college classes more accessible and higher quality for all of them. I think colleges could do a lot for their students who can not come back to campus due to risk factors.

Like I said in my post about genetic susceptibility, I wish we knew more about who is at risk, but for now, we would have to go with the risk factors we know, and advise those students to consider online learning, and professors in risk categories could teach online classes.

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@AlmostThere2018 I guess I’m stuck on Amherst’s wording about asking the kids to social distance except for a small group of people. It would be different, of course, if kids could hang out (and forget about the six feet thing) in groups smaller than say ten or less. And it wouldn’t have to be the same ten for the whole semester. But that’s really not what Amherst seems to be saying.

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MLive.com: Online classes, bar crawls at home: University of Michigan students stick out senior year.
https://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor/2020/05/online-classes-bar-crawls-at-home-university-of-michigan-students-stick-out-senior-year.html

Thought this had some good things in it.

Students that lived together made ground rules. They still did stuff together but social distanced. Etc etc. This is not the same since they only had a few weeks left and were seniors but you get the idea.

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Agree. I read all these what-ifs and think, as D19 would say, “Dude, that is not gonna happen.” e.g., only interacting with their roommate, no other friends in their dorm room. But I’m trying not to stress too much about it at this point. I know there are people at the schools working really hard to figure it out. I’ll wait and see what they come up with before deciding it’s unworkable.

I keep thinking…
Utopia = Fall 2019
Distopia = Now

And we keep saying, if it’s not like Utopia, then it’s no good.
And if it’s like Distopia, it can’t work.
But by Fall 2019, it will be neither Utopia nor Distopia. Of course, decisions have to be made before then.

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Many schools have not done registration for fall yet. And several schools are mentioning remote learning as an option so that students without housing can stay home (whether they want to or not).

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From RIT
Dear RIT family,

We have made it to the homestretch of the academic year! This will long be remembered as a surreal spring semester, with COVID-19, but one marked by your inspiring dedication, resolve and ingenuity. I am so proud of all RIT students, faculty, and staff ­for rising to the occasion and overcoming every obstacle.

So, what is next? When will RIT return to normal? Will we be open this fall? Will it be safe to return? These are questions we all are pondering.

Let me outline our vision for moving forward and reimagining RIT in a new normal.

First, through creative development of strategies and contingency plans, we are optimistic about a fall opening on campus. We eagerly are planning the best and safest ways in which to bring the residential academic experience back, with public health considerations at the forefront. As we proceed, we will follow the latest guidance and direction of local and state health officials, the Governor, and the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. It also is our intention to be open on our global campuses in China, Croatia, Dubai, and Kosovo.

A return to campus in the fall will require innovative new practices and new safety standards related to places and spaces, and how we learn, study, conduct research, collaborate, and engage with one another. University leaders, in consultation with subject-matter experts, currently are researching and crafting a plan of action that we believe will ensure a healthy environment for our fall return. Integral to this effort is the Fall Planning Task Force, which will coordinate and synthesize the work of three committees:

Academic Planning: Overseen by the Office of the Provost, this team will recommend the processes and structure for delivering an outstanding educational experience for our students. Among the scenarios considered will be a hybrid option with mixed face-to-face and online instruction. This committee will consider size limits on lectures, mechanisms for small-group discussions and projects, extended scheduling, and more. The group will identify best formats for lab, studio, and capstone experiences with appropriate social distancing.
Infrastructure and Health Technologies: Operating out of Finance and Administration, this group will identify improvements to campus infrastructure and processes, and new health technologies to help safeguard us in the new reality brought on by the pandemic. Residence halls, dining halls, academic facilities, and public spaces all will be studied and potentially upgraded. Areas to be examined include virus and antibody testing, daily monitoring, quarantine housing and related student comfort services, enhanced disinfection, new food service models, touchless technologies, sanitized air handling, and procurement.
Community Readiness: Based in Student Affairs, this committee will consist of students, parents, faculty, staff, and medical professionals. This team will review the readiness of our campus, in the eyes of the committee members, to offer an appealing and safe living environment, robust academics, and engaging student activities. This assessment will recognize that extra precautions may be necessary for individuals in high-risk categories. Areas of consideration will include protocols for testing and daily monitoring; means of contact tracing and quarantine support for students; potential availability of therapeutics; social distancing measures; format for educational delivery; scope of campus programs and events; and level of student support services. This committee will be informed by and work in collaboration with the other two committees.

Information on the Fall Planning Task Force and each of the committees will be posted soon on RIT’s Coronavirus website.

We have an enormous amount of exciting work in front of us prior to Aug. 24, the first day of the fall semester, but I am confident that with our creative talent and the thinking that’s already been done, we will craft a solid plan. It is good news that we are not in this alone. We are collaborating heavily with other universities, especially through the Commission on Independent Colleges and Universities (CICU) in New York State and the National Association of Independent Colleges and Universities (NAICU). We are learning from one another.

We all know that the Coronavirus will not truly be defeated until a vaccine is widely available. Until then, campus life will be different, but it can incorporate the best of what we all cherish about a residential experience. We pledge to work creatively to reopen RIT as safely and fully as possible for our entire community.

For now, good luck to all of our students on your final exams. And congratulations to the Class of 2020!

Yours in Tiger Pride,

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My S19 has said for him the worst would be going back to school for a few weeks in the fall, then having to return home again due to an outbreak.

But as someone said upthread, he isn’t worried about it, nor are his friends - he knows it is beyond his control and will just see “what’s what” when the college communicates it’s plans for the fall.

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So I’m an incoming freshman at Vanderbilt. I’ve lost my senior year sport, prom, and almost certainly graduation. It stinks. I’m not saying it for any reason other than to say that my feelings on this subject may very well be impacted by my current mindset. My aunt and uncle got very sick from Covid, and my aunt almost died. Our family of 5 hasn’t left the house since mid-March- we’ve been very compliant.

So here’s my thinking. If we do online, I might try to do a gap year. The problem? My parents don’t want me to, primarily because there’s not much to do! I can’t imagine sitting in my house for another year, with minimal personal interaction. There aren’t many internships available, travel is a no-no, etc. So I’d be taking a gap year to preserve the “experience” we’ve all been taught to look forward to since we were little. So a gap year would stink.

This is not going to be a popular opinion, but I think we’ve both done exactly what we’ve needed to do AND believe that within the next month or two we need to get back to a semblance of normal. There are risks in life. If you eliminate 70+ and compromised people, there is STILL risk with Covid. BUT…it’s not a risk any sane country or group of people would shut down over. Most people who are at risk know very well that they are at risk.

I would like to see us go to school in the fall and have a semblance of normalcy to the semester. For everyone saying “that won’t happen!”…how the heck do you know? Don’t say science. Science says that thousands of teenagers might actually be a good thing. Yes, some might get pretty sick. But college students get pretty sick all the time. There are risks. Every year several students die at large schools. Driving, drinking, drugs, etc. Please…I’m not trying to be cavalier about this. There are legit doctors who believe that creating a type of herd immunity amongst the least vulnerable is a great thing. The problem is that the protection of one singular life is greater than the protection of millions. I get that. But what I’m saying is that colleges are considering a half-pregnant approach. MINIMIZE RISK!!!

If we go to campus, I could understand reasonable regulations. Limited off campus travel. Enhanced cleanings. No triples. Etc. But disallowing social contact is theater. Legitimate theater. If we’re on campus, we’re a herd. You can’t stop that. It’s living in close quarters, going to class, etc. Let us be that herd. Allow gap or deferrals for those who don’t want it. Allow professors to have a virtual online classroom if needed. But let us have a semester.

There are reports that a second stage might come. Are we going to wait around for that one? To me, the key factor is testing. Test, test, test. Make me take a test days before arriving on campus, and test me as much as you’d like while I’m on. Room kids with antibodies with kids without, to slow a spread. If someone tests positive, quarantine that individual and put SOME restrictions on those he/she was around. But testing and contact tracing on campus- a campus where the overwhelming majority are not going to be heavily impacted- should make things fine.

Almost all of us would sign a waiver. Life is not without risks. I’m 100% certain the 50 year olds on this forum are going to call me naive, and shout at me for not caring about them. That’s false. I do care about you. I’m not expecting you to show up in a college dorm. Your son or daughter might. But he/she/you can make that decision if the risk is worthwhile. If we’re all on campus all of the time, the risk is contained to those on campus. Professors and food service, etc.? Sure. They’ll effectively turn into front line workers. No different than grocery clerks today. We’re in a global crisis. If we constantly avoid the risks fully, we will never get through to the other side.

Have at me. But that’s how I feel, and frankly how many/most of my friends do as well. Maybe we’re stupid 18 yr olds. Who knows?

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@homerdog – I think you can interpret that language in a couple ways – maybe they mean a small group of people – but not the same small group of people. Anything else seems rather impossible to me.

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Quite a lot different than grocery clerks today. Food is necessary; people die without food. You living in a dorm and socializing with your friends, on the other hand, is something you want. You’re not going to die if you don’t go to college this year, and it’s rather presumptuous to demand other people-- not yourself, of course, but other people-- to risk their lives teaching you, feeding you and cleaning up after you because you don’t want to be bored.

I mean, it’s generous of you to risk the lives of Professor Soandso and that nice janitor, but maybe you should ask them whether they want to volunteer to risk their lives so you can go to a party. Lieutenant in front line in the Army For College Students’ Drunken Parties might just not be the job they want to sign up for.

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“You should risk your life so I can tailgate.” I’m not seeing the moral imperative here.

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ny2020ny yours is the most thoughtful, intelligent, and sound post I have read on this thread. Thank you for weighing in.

I am a 50 year old who will not call you naive but instead smart, rational, intelligent, well spoken, and thoughtful. Vanderbilt is getting one astute student - great selection on their part. I wish all the political and college leaders could read your words.

Best wishes to you - you’ve go this.

P.S. Thanks for working on the herd immunity for us! :slight_smile:

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This might gel under today’s scenario, but do you believe that the vast majority of businesses won’t be open in the fall? That the mall won’t be open? That my mom’s hair salon won’t be (no, we don’t live in GA)?

The janitor you’re referring to, the professor…They will be no different than the vast majority of employed people in this country by fall. If we’re still in lockdown like today, and have not made any advancements? Sure. I don’t want to go. But if we’re continuing to make the slow advances, and the rest of the country is pretty much moving along? I don’t see how the employees at my school are any different than others jobs. There is a risk. You either choose to take the chance, or don’t. Those front line workers, outside of the professors, in my scenario? If we don’t go to school, they’re out of a job. If we go to school, at least they have the opportunity not to be.

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@homerdog I disagree, to me it sounds like that’s what they mean; I highly doubt they would tell people they could not see their close friends, since this would greatly damage the mental health of many students who have already had their mental health diminished by the forced isolation and loneliness caused by shutting down the colleges earlier and this pandemic.

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The high school senior had me until he said 50 year olds. Lol.

I think a lot of 50 year olds agree with you to some degree. FYI.

We also also have pretty similar risk profiles if healthy to you. FWIW

We are all concerned mostly with our elderly. Our parents, your grandparents. Also we care about your safety.

That’s the job of 50 years olds. Care for two generations and for many, to foot the bills for both.

I hope it works out for you.

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First off, I appreciate the fact that you, as a rising freshman, can share your opinion and your voice is important in this discussion.

There are several unknowns that make a “normal” on campus experience potentially problematic:

  • there is no definitive study that shows once you have had the virus you have full immunity to never get it again or if you do have immunity, how long will it last?
  • Herd immunity, if it works, will take months and months, maybe a year to reach the 70% rate.
  • colleges consist of many people of many different ages and health conditions that may be more likely to get sick versus undergrad students. Think faculty, administrators, maintenance workers, food service etc.
  • while not ideal, college students can utilize technology to take their courses online. Not a great option but it can and does work with zero risk of virus spread.
  • i know you want to get back to “normal” but we will not be back to any semblance of normal until if/when we get a vaccine.
  • opening up colleges in the fall is a complex and difficult decision that colleges will struggle with but at the end of the day will take a cautious approach.

We will know more in the coming months but I have a feeling that college life on campus will not be back to normal for at least a year if not longer.

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Herd immunity among the young without lots of death among the elderly and the vulnerable (some of whom are young by the way) is not a thing. It’s not possible. It cannot happen. You get herd immunity among the young by killing people (or vaccination, but we haven’t got that.). There is no other way, and of course, ny2020ny, you’re not suggesting another way- you’re just suggesting that your professors, your college workers and the people who live in Nashville should volunteer to risk death for the sake of your college experience.

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@“Cardinal Fang” “You won’t die” is not necessarily accurate. Many college students struggle with mental illness, and I know many students who are having great struggles with their mental health as a result of being forced into isolation this semester. The COVID-19 death rate for people our age is most likely less than 1 in 1,000. Suicide is much more likely to take the lives of people my age than COVID-19. If most colleges remained closed next semester, I would not be surprised if there was a sizable spike in college student suicides across the country next semester.