@sylvan8798 I feel this is different because in times of war people are busy and preoccupied, but the situation with COVID-19 is reversed; tons of people stuck at home with nothing to do. While we still have work to do for college, we are still significantly less busy. Historically, war is actually very good for the economy; the situation here is reversed with COVID-19 as well.
Impact of Business Cycles on US Suicide Rates, 1928–2007
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3093269/
“The largest increase in the overall suicide rate occurred during the Great Depression (1929–1933), when it surged from 18.0 in 1928 to 22.1 (the all-time high) in 1932, the last full year of the Great Depression. This increase of 22.8% was the highest recorded for any 4-year interval during the study period. The overall suicide rate also rose during 3 other severe recessions: the end of the New Deal (1937–1938), the oil crisis (1973–1975), and the double-dip recession (1980–1982). ”
(not necessarily for college age though)
OK - this is NOT suicide - but my neighbor is a police officer; she said the calls are going through the roof for domestic abuse/disturbance. Lots of people are scared, angry, jobless.
Something that hasn’t been mentioned much (or at least lately ) but falls under the thread heading is : School for K-12 in the fall.
A 1st grade teacher friend is just scared of it all in her urban low income classroom. She mentioned distance seating charts, masks, no touching, no jungle gym recess, no cafeterias, etc. etc. How on earth do you keep 20 students from not getting close to each other? And they are going to be so far behind coming in to first grade for the most part. . . . She’s very nervous.
I’m VERY concerned about my D23 and her school situation as well. I am just completely underwhelmed with her schooling since march 16. its a hot mess. School district decided not to grade 4th quarter; so there’s NO motivation and there’s a low percentage of kids still doing work. but learning biology from worksheets is hard. and learning French from power points is really hard.
How long can we go without education for kids in this urban district of 50,000? And we aren’t the only district suffering I’m guessing. Handing a young kid an iPad is not going to get far . . . if they don’t have internet, don’t have food, don’t have a parent sitting nearby, don’t know their alphabet, don’t know English . … . . So, I worry.
@momzilla, eyeballing your article, it doesn’t look like suicide rates for ages 18-24 went up during any recession, except the Oil Crisis, where they were continuing the upward trend that began at the start of the 60’s boom years. In any case, there will be a recession whether college students go back to school or not.
I am someone else keeping an eye on the k12 situation. In our area, the issue will be school buses that carry between 50-60 students per route. There is no way to stagger as those same buses are used for all three schools (elementary, middle, and high school) on a staggered schedule as is. I have heard the idea of A & B days where students go every other day to school which could help… In the middle of all this are children that also need services. My son is autistic and losing services through his school is already causing issues.
Sadly, I know of the suicides of two sophomores during the lock down at the beginning of April. I’m not comfortable naming the university on CC, but it’s a school that is discussed on the board frequently.
@momzilla2D But people weren’t forced to socially isolate themselves from all their friends during other business cycles. I think the main reason for an increase in suicides will be social isolation.
Non-paywall sites:
https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2020/04/01/air-force-academy-eases-restrictions-after-2-suicides/
https://www.stripes.com/news/us/senior-leaders-visit-air-force-academy-after-two-cadets-die-in-suspected-suicides-1.624410
I have not read the last several pages, so I don’t know if this has been posted yet.
Two weeks after mandating masks in public, Austria reduced its number of new cases by 90%. NINETY PERCENT.
https://www.sciencetimes.com/articles/25410/20200421/austria-90-drop-coronavirus-cases-requiring-people-wear-face-masks.htm
Here’s the initial announcement of the mask-wearing mandate.
https://www.ft.com/content/f68f3063-5024-4654-9389-bcc7ee1efd8e
This is extremely instructive for college re-opening.
Another college student checking in! (Rising senior).
I think this point of view is a little misguided - of course we’re all going to want to go back to campus, most of us are at a minuscule risk of having serious complications from COVID. The issue isn’t our health - it’s the health of the woman cleaning the toilets that serve an entire floor of a crowded freshman dorm. Even if classes are remote while students are on campus, that’s ignoring the huge amount of staff on campus who can’t do their jobs remotely (not to mention their families, and college towns in general).
My last memories of being on campus are of standing on line in a dining hall to have a cafeteria worker in a mask and gloves pour me a plastic cup of water. I got a glimpse of socially-distanced campus life, and it was super creepy. I’d much rather be at home than wear masks in my dorm and eat 6 feet apart from my friends. (Admittedly, I am very very lucky to get along with my parents and have a nice home life). This is ignoring the fact that I don’t think a “socially distanced campus” is at all possible.
I’m betting on my college going remote in the fall. I think after June 1, when all the freshman have enrolled, schools are going to get a lot less optimistic. I think schools that open are going to run a big risk of having to suddenly close down again. The K-12 issue is much thornier, because young kids going to school is necessary for their parents to go to work and for the economy to restart.
Hey everyone,
I know that this is a bit early to tell but do you think that the universities will open for the fall 2020 semester?
I’m seeing some announcements from colleges that they WILL open…
If colleges decide to make the decisions, when will it be?
What about in spring 2021? What do you think it’ll happen regarding opening schools/universities?
Social distancing measures at the hospital that I work at hasn’t impacted the social aspect with colleagues for me that much to be honest. We just can’t go out after work because of course bars/restaurants/cinemas are closed.
The chairs in the staff room and offices have been moved further apart, the canteens have become take away only but there are a lot of benches outside that staff can use. We have to wear masks at all times. But the camaraderie within my team has actually grown because of this crazy thing that we are going through together.
A college likely won’t have as strict a measure as hospitals, for obvious reasons. I don’t thing that college students will be made to think that any changes won’t make the experience “ worth it” from a social point of view. Maybe just invest in a lunch box, phone speakers, and diy cocktail making kits before you go. There maybe more hanging out in dorms and parks than going to nightclubs.
Yes. Most of them said so. The open question is whether all or some classes will be online.
June or early July for most colleges. Those on quarter system may be able to delay their final decision by another month.
If they open in the fall and are able to manage the risks, they should have more experience and more tools (including vaccines?) to manage the risks in the spring?
I am much more worried for the K-12 teachers than the college instructors and professors. This population is contained in the same building all day and especially elementary teachers literally have kids coughing, sneezing, and touching them all day long. No matter what precautions you take or mitigations, there is going to be no way to avoid this.
Yet I really don’t hear about not opening K-12 schools. It seems they are all expected to be open. We consider this to be a social institution (food, daycare, counseling, social work…) of our society whereas the college campus experience seems to be more of a choice or a luxury.
One of the greatest problems I see with K-12 schools is substitute teachers. Teachers and staff are going to be expected to stay home now when sick rather than work through that cold (unless there is rapid testing), or home as a result of contact tracing. K-12 students have to be supervised and can not be left alone or class cancelled unlike college. Where are we going to find the additional staff to cover these classes? Most schools are facing severe budget cuts.
Yes. I also see the decreased class size to adhere to social distancing guidelines to be hugely problematic. How many schools have the extra space? If they don’t, do they do split schedules? Alternating days? (And what about childcare for those alternating days?) And wouldn’t there need to be many more buses? How many school systems are going to have the money to accomplish all of this? And then there is the issue of school staff feeling safe, and many are in the vulnerable group.
A potential game changer for the fall would be if it is found that the Oral Polio Vaccine (OPV) dramatically lessens the severity of COVID19. There’s a study starting now; it’s been discussed on TWIV and there have been a couple of Op-ed pieces on it (including one by Robert Gallo).
If there was something cheap and easy that made this disease less severe, as well as things like masks, testing, contact tracing apps, I think colleges (and everyone else!) would be in a much better place.
What an odd time. I have two sons in HS. One is a senior and the other a junior. The senior is all set for college. He’s hoping for in-person but understands that long-distance learning might be on the menu this fall.
I think it finally hit my junior son that his senior year might not be anything near what he was hoping. He’s outgoing and very social. No sports, no concerts, no musicals. He’s looking at his transcript to see how close he is to graduating. He thought about taking online classes to see if he could graduate early if his senior year is half of what he planned. I doubt he’ll go that route but it was a thought.
One of the options discussed at his HS is one week on-site and one week online. They would stagger students to lessen interaction.
I’m thinking that year-round school might pick-up. You could stagger kids to cut interaction.
I think these options might work for HS kids, not sure about grade school kids.
IMO, the conversation is informative all around and has been respectful on all sides. Thank you to everyone for contributing. There is much to be learned from each opinion and perspective.
@petitbleu - well said.
I appreciated that for students this situation is incredibly frustrating. But I think the risks of an outbreak on campus are real, and colleges have to mitigate these. As the many posts in this thread have illustrated, this is a difficult issue.
I think the K-12 situation is also a challenge, but perhaps the costs involved are not quite as great. First, most obviously, most K-12 schools are not residential. So, you are talking about a portion of the day at the school, without students living in a dormitory. Second, a K-12 school can close on a dime if need be, although of course it raises challenges for working parents. Closing a residential college after all the student have moved in? That sounds like a much bigger logistical challenge.