For some colleges whether to hold class in person or online won’t matter much. At UT Austin, for example, maybe 35k of the 40k students there live off campus, and they will almost all return to their leased apartments in August. Once they are all together anyway, will a few extra hours in class matter?.
Because there is no chance that K-12 schools will remain closed as long as the economy remains open. No chance. Clearly, the economy will be ‘open’ because states are opening all over the country right now. We can’t have a functioning economy without childcare. K-12 schools (and the corresponding after school programs and daycares) are daycare. So its not being discussed, because the opening of K-12 schools is inevitable - a done deal. If they close, then we go back to shutdown mode again.
@Mwfan1921 I have a sinking feeling that our high school will be online again for some time in the fall. I’ve also heard rumblings of dividing the kids up and having them physically go to school every other day. For us (and you) that still means thousands of kids at school each day even if they divide the kids in half. They can’t divide them up by grade since many classes have a range of ages in them. How do they divide them up in order to ensure each class has half as many kids each day? Impossible.
And what about grades? Seniors really need grades for this coming semester. Our high school did give grades but many did not.
And, of course, there’s the inequity issue and the parents needing to work issue. I agree that it seems odd that we don’t seem to be seeing any plans in the works for a fall with the virus. Our school seems to be taking it day by day, still figuring out virtual graduation and cancelling in-person summer school, but absolutely no info at all on planning for fall.
Someplace I read that Chinese contact tracers were not seeing infected children subsequently infecting adults, only the other way around, adults infecting children. But, more recent studies suggest otherwise, e.g. https://www.businessinsider.com/children-do-transmit-covid-19-says-researcher-amid-confusion-2020-4. (Sigh. It is mind-boggling how much more data is needed, but an interesting angle to consider.)
One angle that we must keep in mind that hasn’t been mentioned much here (at least recently) is that most colleges can’t afford to lose another semester of room & board and lost tuition from students who don’t return.
Strong higher education institutions have been an incredibly important driver of this country’s success. While I know colleges received some federal stimulus dollars, it’s not enough to defray the huge revenue losses already incurred – not to mention future ones. Meanwhile, state public dollars are drying up daily due to reduced taxes from the economic shuttering.
As outsiders looking in it might be tempting to say ‘keep it shut down’ but college leaders have to think not only about this academic year but ALL the years to come. They are custodians of long-term assets and are trying to figure out how to weather major financial storms. If they don’t welcome students back, can they make it financially? Would they lay off so many faculty/staff and shutter so many programs/research that when they do return it will take a decade or more to return to their current status, diminishing their ability to add value to our national ‘braintrust’? Of course, some would argue that this kind of disruption to higher ed will create more innovative colleges that emerge, and that could be true, but that’s an unknown right now.
It’d one thing if we thought there were public dollars that would be used to offset the financial bleeding – but I don’t see that happening.
Suffice to say, the financial piece is important and is why colleges are doing everything they can to think through how to safely re-open with students on campus, even though there are risks.
K-12 schools are local. The state and local governments will decide whether the schools will open, presumably based on the latest local pandemic data, medical advice, and other factors unique to their localities. Their decisions can be made at the last minute. National colleges, on the other hand, have to consider factors beyond governmental restrictions and their local pandemic situations. Their students come from all over the country and the world. Because most of their students have to travel, and some have to sign apartment leases, they also don’t have the luxury to wait until the last minute to make their decisions.
Yes, I get the reasons for opening K-12 schools and support that.
If K-12 schools open with some not-insignificant proportion of older and at risk or immunocompromised teachers, counselors, cafeteria workers, security guards, etc. there’s no reason colleges shouldn’t.
Edited to add: compared to D19’s 2,000 person LAC, in which setting would you expect to see greater spread of Covid-19?
Boy this thread moves fast! Still trying to catch up. But wanted to comment on @momzilla2D ’s post 2146 re utopia vs distopia. And you all know I keep harping about the $. But pay $35k for 15 weeks of utopia - classes, internships, research, networking, sports,
vs $35k for 15 weeks of just classes, but no internships, sports, ECs, etc. That’s a hard nut to swallow.
Well, our high school is slated to start on something like August 10th and that’s before most colleges go to school. It will be interesting.
That’s early! We go back Aug 26.
Another reason you don’t hear about keeping K-12 closed is the learning loss and equity concerns. You’d have huge and deeply troubling consequences of keeping kids out of school next year – some kids would never catch up. Researchers will be doing studies on these kids for decades and there will be impacts already, no doubt.
Part of this has to do with brain plasticity, creating neural pathways and such (I’m no expert), but the bottom line is if young kids have subpar learning experiences for too long, they actually have a diminished ability TO learn in the future. Scary stuff, especially for kids who live home without books, etc., which is a really high number.
Our K-12 is supposed to start during the first week of August, my other kids about mid-Aug.
I could see a scenario where smaller schools in states with a small number of Covid cases (I’m thinking the 3 ME Nescacs for example) open with less restrictions and risks than other schools. What if they were able to confirm that all students returning to campus were virus free. And because the infection rate in the surrounding area is low, the risk overall to those schools is lower. Most of the risk may come from staff and faculty who are traveling on and off campus much more than the students. It’s really going to come down to mitigating risk vs eliminating it.
And while many on this thread are very concerned that college aged kids will run amok and become disease spreaders, I give them a lot more credit for being responsible. In fact from what I see on the news and in my community it is more often adults practicing riskier behavior. And I see/hear college kids starting food delivery services for the elderly, rescuing food from farms to deliver to food banks etc. Let’s give these kids some credit for being/acting responsibly.
I just read this and this pisses me off to no end. Pandemics like this aren’t supposed to happen. It’s something we see in a bad B movie. I think it’s a partnership with colleges. Poor kids. They had to look at recordings… Blah, blah. I have 2 kids going through it. Not ideal but both continued to learn.
Now the schools have to deal with lawsuits. Some small colleges will not make it. All they need now is to spend money they don’t have to defend a suit.
Why do people think they are owed something?
If they don’t want to go to school in the fall then so be it. Stay home and whine then.
Sorry… But is it just me?
Do you guys think colleges in different regions of the country will behave differently? Intuitively, it seems like common sense that NYU should be more cautious than a school in rural Wisconsin. But since students come from all over, in a sense there’s a risk of fast spread on any campus, anywhere. In fact, colleges could introduce COVID into a barely affected region if not managed properly.
Yes. No question
@petitbleu who knows. It only takes one infected student to start the spread. I would think hundreds of colleges have some kids from OOS. Part of this will depend on where each state is in their recovery and what will be allowed by each governor.
My wife is an elementary school educator (1st grade). She goes the extra mile (s) in making zoom meetings interesting, educational, and enjoyable. Unlike most of her peers who do everything from home, she does her lessons from school (essentially the only one there other than the office staff), as she uses all her normal resources for science projects, art, etc. Actually surprised they let her do this but whatever.
She can make it for the balance of this school yr but will not be a happy camper if this continues in the fall. Way harder than regular teaching as the parents need to be far more involved (and most resist). She bundles packets of work with detailed instructions yet constantly gets calls from parents asking “How do I…”. C’mon parents, it’s not rocket science, just read the info provided and help your kid…
She said she will not return in the fall if this is how it’s going to be. Sorry, done venting…
I have read this entire thread from start to finish (over a period of weeks) and realized that even with every scenario and every opinion given, nobody really knows what will happen in the fall at this point. Even with citings of various CDC recommendations, newspaper articles and college statements, there are no definitive decisions that can be absolutely promised.