This is not just for “another semester” then everything will be fine. We won’t have a vaccine available to everyone for another 18 months at best.
People don’t need restaurants in order to live. They don’t need to fly in a plane in order to live. They don’t need to stay in a hotel in order to live. There are many things we could shut down in order to reduce the probability of infection. But shutting all of these things down completely until there is a vaccine isn’t being seriously considered because it would wreck the economy. Companies in these industries need revenues, employees need to get paid.
Likewise there need to be compromises over the best way to deliver college in a way that families are prepared to pay for. Plenty of people on here say that they are not prepared to pay for another year of online classes. That’s what colleges are trying to balance.
@circuitrider I never said if people “don’t like it, they can shove it”, I’m saying that it’s simply unreasonable for us to continue the course of action we have pursued for the last few months over the long period of time. Many people in this nation are desperate for work, and beggars can’t be choosers. It’s just the way life works.
Eat-in restaurants, airlines, and hotels are losing or would lose substantial business even without added government restrictions, because people are too afraid of the virus to go there.
Yes, it is a hard problem for those colleges that bundle the basic product/service of education with premium features like a luxury-class residential college experience which customers (students and parents) pay a premium for. Obviously, the loss of the premium or luxury features, even if the basic product/service (and the bundled positional good of prestige, if applicable) is intact, does not go over well with those who are paying a premium over a lower cost college that just offers the basic product/service without any premium features (i.e. through commuter or distance education and otherwise economy-class student services).
@NJSue My parents have said they will let me (and make me, as long as they are reopen) return to my college campus under any and all circumstances in fall. Everyone I know has parents who are going to let their kids return in fall no matter what. I am not familiar with a single student who has a parent that will not allow their adult offspring to return to college campuses in the fall.
And if there is a liability shield, I think (but am not entirely sure) they CAN’T SUE for COVID-19 related reasons, meaning they would have to come up with a reason unrelated to COVID-19. .
I’m not a doom-and-gloomer. Lockdown won’t last forever. Most people will go back to their normal lives. Eventually, we will learn how this virus behaves, and we will learn how to respond to it. Eventually, we will identify the most effective treatments and public health campaigns (i.e. type 2 diabetes, a lifestyle disease, is a major co-morbidity of Covid19 according to the covid19.nj.gov dashboard). There may never be a vaccine for it (apparently coronaviruses are hard to develop vaccines for), but I do believe we will learn how to “live with it” and mitigate risk to the best of our ability.
@ChemAM - I fail to see the qualitative difference between “if they don’t like it, they can shove it” and “Beggars can’t be choosy.” Maybe, you can enlighten me.
@circuitrider I think the difference is “if they don’t like it, they can shove it” is a disrespectful and condescending statement that does not take into account the difficulties many people are having that have been exacerbated by this crisis; “Beggars can’t be choosy” is a fact about our world and its cruel nature.
Well, I know plenty of parents who won’t let their adult children return to campus in the fall in certain circumstances, even if it is open. I also know students not interested in returning to campus under certain circumstances.
Opinions are just that.
Could not agree more. I don’t know any parents (even on this thread) who have said they will choose online for sure (assuming a gap year is impossible) if campus is open.
Go to Google and see what a real lockdown looks like- like Madrid. Easy to sit in comfy homes, order Amazon and takeout and say it’s too unsafe for hotel works to work.
What’s going to change in January? If it’s too unsafe for fall, then it’s too unsafe for spring. There will be no vaccine by January.
We need to mitigate risks, but risks will not be eliminated.
I am not even certain K-12 will be back to any sort of normal in the fall… The bus situation alone will be an issue if they plan on any sort of social distancing.
Will universities have the time, equipment, or information (since it is constantly evolving) to be able to welcome students back in August (or September)? If K-12 isn’t “back to normal” with normal hours, full week, etc asking a college to have a plan to house students safely seems like a herculean task.
I understand students would rather be on campus but many want that so they can see their friends. It’s about being social- not a return to in-person lectures (though many prefer that as well). Students are not lining up to social distance in isolation in a dorm room- they want to get out and see people.
Some students are saying they have a small friend group but it’s not as simple as saying only these three kids hang out because that is not how it works. They will hang out with other students in small groups who will hang out with other students in small groups etc. It reminds me of the sex education of you sleeping with every person they have slept with, and those people have slept with and so on.
And yes a year or more of online learning is not ideal for many. I understand that but some time to gather more information, gather more supplies, create new treatments while awaiting a vaccine seems wise. Mitigation will improve over time even if a vaccine is not available.
There’s no irony whatsoever between someone concerned about getting to spend time with their friends (and colleges should put that at the top of their priority list) who also allows that workers “desperate for work” are beggars who can’t be choosers because it’s just the way life works, die come what may. May 2020.
@MBNC1755 I feel like K-12 is a completely different issue because it hosts its own set of problems that reopening colleges does not; for one, college students stay with other college students and can socially distance themselves from older faculty members if necessary, while K-12 kids go back home to stay with their parents at the end of every day, many of whom are old.
It is possible (but not certain) that medical knowledge will have advanced by then that may do one or more of the following:
Define risk levels better so that it can be better known who is high or low risk of bad outcomes (rather than broad brushes by age).
Reduce the risk of a bad outcome (death, need for hospitalization, and/or permanent injury after recovery) if one gets infected.
Find some prophylactic means of reducing the risk of infection.
Make available accurate inexpensive testing for current and/or past infection.
Determine whether past infection means immunity.
In the last few months, there have already been some advances that:
Reduced the need/use of ventilators.
Found that if an asymptomatic contagious person is wearing a home made mask, the amount of infectious droplets that escape to possibly infect others is significantly reduced (although such a mask does less to protect the wearer from others' exhaled infected droplets) -- i.e. mask wearing is more of an altruistic action.
Found that longer term presence indoors is much riskier in passing the virus than transient presence outdoors.
@sylvan8798 Give me a break. It is a figure of speech, and a truth of life. Are you denying that we live in an unfair world? I’m sorry that is considered offensive to you, but facts don’t change because it personally impacts people in negative ways.
I never said that colleges should put that at the top of their priority list; just that, if they can, then they should at least try to. And many students at Amherst have been struggling with mental health from forced isolation, so that puts them at risk to an extent to.
If you ridicule and quote out-of-context, you are doing yourself and everyone on this thread a great disservice.
If we wish to post our opinions and arguments, I think we should all agree that it is most prudent to be respectful to each other while doing so. Remember the golden rule, folks.
@ChemAM K-12 schools being “back to normal” is a requirement for many to return to work. Whereas colleges have shown they can provide distance education (to varying degrees) in a pinch. Those professors, staff, janitors, etc you expect to be able to work on campus in the fall? Many have children and cannot return if their child does not have childcare (often in the form of k-12 school).
K-12 is more essential than an on-campus learning experience. It is easier to send a k-12 student who is ill home to be cared for VS having to provide care for a student who lives on campus. Colleges often have at least a handful of commuters that live in a certain distance from campus- would they not be infecting their parents (who are probably much older than a K-12 parent)?
Also, I really am curious as to your definition of old. I actually nearly spit out my tea at the “old” k-12 parent line. I am only 37 and I have a college bound student and middle schooler and I was hoping to avoid the “old” label for at least another few years.
