So far, I do not know of any school that is requiring students to return to campus. So, everyone will have a range of options to consider. Include the option for transferring to some other school that more closely matches your risk level and everyone can make an informed decision that they feel comfortable with.
Professors, lecturers, and staff need to make their decisions as well, just like any other employee at any other company that begins to open.
@tuckethannock , in a way societies have made this choice before, in how they have accepted the death toll of seasonal flu. Mitigation and vaccine uptake is far lower than it could be. What was stopping us from getting getting everyone who isn’t medically exempted vaccinated and making everyone wash their hands for 20 seconds before? Or controlling access to care homes or distancing yourself from elderly relatives during the height of the flu season, which isn’t that long and has a defined beginning an end? I have aimed to get myself and my family vaccinated every year, but there are years I have slacked off. I won’t ever again.
Problem is, some societies are already way beyond the flu deaths they routinely accept. Others are not, and can conceivably live with a carefully contained second wave this winter (we know how now, we just don’t like it). After all, there will hardly be any flu spread either.
In a similar veins, there have been school closures and quarantines this century and last century, for polio, Hong Kong flu etc.
I think societal consent will be the hardest to achieve, in order to make the containment effort needed.
When people post that colleges should open and be responsible for quarantining students who are seriously ill with a deadly disease (in hotels or wherever they can find space on campus) and low income employees will just have to suck up the very real risk to their lives or find another job because “that’s life” they’re forgetting that many of those employees are represented by unions. They don’t have to go back. And if the attitude displayed by students on this thread is representative of students as a whole, why should they?
So that may mean it’s Caltech or bust? 
I think there are ways to bring students back (with varying degrees of safety), but not a single option I’ve read about–and I’ve been following this thread and reading voraciously on the topic–has satisfactorily addressed the loss of the overall social experience.
If my rising freshman goes to college, doesn’t meet people, doesn’t integrate, doesn’t hit it off with her roommate but has limited opportunities to engage with others, it will be a rough start to college. Even if she likes her classes, if she can’t build relaitonships, she will be unhappy and lonely. And transitioning to college can be a lonely and challenging time under the best of circumstances. Losing students the following year (who may feel that they tried but failed to integrate on their campus) are at risk for leaving the next year.
Not that her university is asking me, but if I could weigh in, I’d tell them that I would rather pay for an online experience for the semester (or even the year) and have her start college on the right foot. If they can do that in the Fall, great–our family is all in. If not, I recognize that we’re paying for the credential and we’ll make the most of distance learning, we’ll support her in engaging in meaningful activities (including, perhaps, connecting with other local students from her University), and we’ll eagerly return in January or even fall of 2021.
For the parents (or students) who are saying they’ll leave if school is online for another semester, I would suggest that while that might be their first (emotional) response, upon reflection, cooler heads might prevail. No college–no matter what they tell us–can make next year what we all hoped it would be. So if students leave, they go…where? Do…what, exactly? Only to reapply later, perhaps losing their merit money, not to mention their momentum? Taking a gap year might make sense for many and I appreciate that the high costs of college make it a bitter pill to swallow to shell out tens of thousands of dollars for a limited experience, but I don’t see a more appealing alternative. Colleges offer something we all agreed was worth paying for (which is why we registered our kids to attend).
I might feel differently if some colleges were offering an amazing, in-person experience; in that case there would be competition and if my D’s school lagged other universities, we’d explore our options. But in this case, none of the options are appealing. Even the colleges who are firmly planning to bring students back are doing so with lots of caveats and asterisks. Every college is in the same boat, dealing with sub-optimal circumstances (to put it mildly) and there’s nothing they can do to change it.
Colleges that find that they have a seriously ill student (from any cause) on campus should ensure that the student receives medical care - period.
Union or no union, no one should work in an environment that they do not feel safe in. If you your risk/reward analysis dictates you don’t work - don’t.
Colleges all across the US are planning now. I hope professors and employees are included in the planning. Hint: if your not included in the planning at some level it might be a good time to move on.
Flu is a deadly disease and schools currently bear the burden of caring for students infected with flu. I am not equating covid-19 to the flu in terms of overall death rate or impact…but the reality is that flu can be deadly for the students, the cafeteria staff, the maintenance staff, faculty, etc. My point is that colleges have been able to deal with flu outbreaks.
Again, covid-19 seems to be much more serious than flu, but why are we normalizing and even ignoring the tens of thousands of flu deaths that happen every. single. year., just in the US?
I agree that colleges and students don’t have to go back. But for some colleges, one year of remote instruction will result in their closure. Many college administrators believe they are in a fight for the existence of their college. Full stop.
@cuppasbux you articulated my thoughts, exactly.
I wouldn’t dismiss these colleges too fast. The NFL is looking into special masks for the helmuts.
If it works for the NFL, no reason that Notre Dame, Michigan, and Clemson can’t use similar virus protective gear.
College football brings in $billions of revenue each fall, I can see where they could come up with some precautions and safety equipment to make it happen (albeit with no live fans) and would not be a reflection on how they conduct the safety precautions of on-campus students and faculty.
I truly believe that colleges are taking their job very seriously on if and how to open their colleges in the fall, irregardless if they have football or not.
It’s a fair question. To speak to your immediate point, personally, I think flu vax should be required unless medically exempted, because you’re right, people still die unnecessarily from it thanks to others’ spread. This year more than ever, because not only will Covid still be circulating, but people will have internal damage they don’t know about from Covid, possibly leaving them more susceptible to flu and easier to kill with flu.
Beyond that, I see some considerable differences.
One, we know the flu virus pretty well. When H1N1 surprised us, we had a pretty hinkily coordinated response, but districts shut down schools, people worked from home, hospitals shared info and beds, and – most important – we actually rolled out a new vaccine very fast. CDC was also allowed to function properly during that time.
Two, we know the flu disease pretty well, so we have a fairly clear sense of risks. Even H1N1, which did have some ugly neuro complications, was the flu. We still don’t really know what Covid-19 is.
And three, of course, the death and disability rate from flu is much lower than it is from Covid-19.
So overall we’ve had major assist with flu from science and government that we don’t have yet for Covid, even though flu carries less risk than Covid does. We are in that sense on our own, which means that the “who am I willing to kill to get X” question lands much more squarely on our own shoulders.
However, IANA medical ethicist. Anyone out there?
Hi @Twoin18 ! Yes this is a moderated site. However, as [I</a> explained elsewhere](Pandemic, megathreads and moderation - College Confidential Community - College Confidential Forums) it’s difficult to moderate effectively with rapidly-changing and very-long threads like this one.
This is an instructive example. I hadn’t been paying attention to this thread until you pinged me. You’ve helpfully quoted another reply, but I can’t tell what the context is. Was there a dispute? Do you agree with the quoted reply or do you take issue with it? The only way to know is to start reading the thread. That’s 195 pages of context!
Maybe the dispute has been resolved? The only way to find that out is to read another 10 or so pages of replies that have come in since.
We have good moderators and I’d like to help them be as effective as possible. At the beginning of the month [I</a> proposed a solution the the problem](Let's try something new for long threads - Parent Cafe - College Confidential Forums). It seems likely that solution is not really working. Unfortunately, that probably means aggressively shutting down conversations that become contentious.
@Cuppabux This is where my DD is. She has actually lived away from home for high school and she is aware that it can be more isolating in a small dorm if you aren’t able to make friends fast vs at home where her family is there to support and hang with. She loved her residential HS experience but at the beginning, it was not easy. If students are locked down despite being on campus it will be difficult to build those relationships they need.
As for many saying students have a choice… well to a point. Decision day has come and went. If the campus is open and my DD does not attend she is going to lose her scholarship. It is a choice for sure but honestly, without her scholarship, she would not be able to attend. She turned down similar scholarships at other schools to attend this one. Changes have occurred already (switching to 7 & 1/2 week sessions) after the commitment date that has her questioning that choice despite how much she loves the school. Honestly to say no now means she will be unable to attend any school beyond community college. So juggling her future with the desire to both keep her safe and also keep her happy. Choice? Yes but not an easy one.
@“Cardinal Fang” What about empty stadium games for those who make a lot of money off of football?
I believe it was a “student” not “students”.
Most employees of colleges aren’t in unions - because most are not faculty. The cleaning people, cooks, contractors, maintenance staff etc. will all have to go back. As a matter of fact, right now, there are hospital workers (cleaners, admin assistants taking appointments, techs, supply delivery people), cooks, electricians, contractors, and business people in essential businesses that HAVE TO go back to work or be fired. And in the next few weeks, when all offices and businesses are open (they will all be, across this country) those people will have to go to work or get fired. That’s what the student was saying. Hotel workers are like any other workers. Also, hotel workers are not going to be nurses.
@cuppasbux What if there’s still no vaccine for fall of 2021 and we’re in the same boat as this fall? Would you take 2 years off? It’s a possibility. Vaccine’s typically take years to develop and we don’t know how long immunity lasts if you’ve had it.
If they were, do you really think they would tell you?
I’m in that boat. The answer is yes, especially if we haven’t reached herd-immunity levels by then.
“Making the most of distance learning” isn’t the same thing as “taking two years off”, incidentally. That said, once a kid hits 18, that kid is a legal adult. But would I pay to ship the kid off somewhere in that circumstance? No.
We are not the only people in this society.
The NFL seems to be okay with TBI, domestic violence, and racism. I’m not sure they’re the experts to turn to here.
Fortunately, it would appear likely we won’t have to face that situation, as I think almost all colleges will either open in person in Fall 2021 or close permanently. There is not much demand for long-term expensive online courses.
Are you saying we should shelter in place or stay at home, whatever your state calls it, until there is a vaccine?