Tell me about the emotional impact of working in a hard-hit hospital. I’ve been reading that a lot of doctors, nurses and EMS workers (the ones that haven’t died) are going to need PTSD counseling. I don’t think that in scheme of things, college students have been particularly hard hit in this national crisis.
I’ve noticed amongst the humans that it’s remarkably easy for them to dismiss hardship not felt by themselves – and that likely goes double for hardship they might never be in a position to feel.
People. Go Figure.
Colleges that might be financially vulnerable have a lot of interested parties to satisfy if they want to stay in business. It won’t do to antagonize parents, if they’re counting on the parents of next year’s freshman class to send their children to their college. Being perceived as mishandling their re-opening is a risk. A big outbreak of COVID-19 would also be a way to ensure a tiny class of 2026.
I really don’t understand the comments likening the risk to college professors and other staff to office workers. An office worker will be dealing with an office full of potential carriers, but all those carriers are living at home with a handful of people who can socially distance. A person working at a college is dealing with thousands of people who CANNOT socially distance - they are using communal showers, dining rooms, etc etc. And it’s not as simple as putting plexiglass in front of the professor - the virus can be transmitted through surfaces. Society is going to re-open in tiers, it’s not all or nothing. Residential colleges are in the same “tier” as cruise ships or Navy vessels, i.e. large groups of people crammed together. And there’s a workable, if imperfect alternative (online learning).
And as an college student, I don’t think suggesting students won’t be good at socially distancing is insulting - it’s facing reality. You really think a bunch of 18 year olds are going to sanitize their dorm’s doorknobs, or wipe down shower handles before touching them? I know people who spray Febreeze in their rooms to cover up the smell of mounds of laundry. If one person in a dorm gets it, it’s going to spread like wildfire.
This is spot on. The strength of the residential college is it Achilles heal in this situation. Colleges differ from cruise ships or prisons in that there is a workable, safe alternative: online learning.
It might not be what people are paying full whack for, and this is a challenge that colleges will have to address. As we emerge from this is a year or two, there may be some reappraisal about what exactly is valued in the residential college experience.
I’m all good with this. I’m not sure that all residential colleges or large state universities will have this capacity. If not, there is a realistic possibility of Covid spread.
I think teaching will go ahead in the Fall for a number of reasons, not least the financial health of the institutions themselves. How that teaching occurs is not settled. However, preparing for whole courses to go online takes a lot of work, and I’m willing to bet that this is occurring at the moment…
The President of Purdue University was just interviewed on Good Morning America. He said that COVID 19 poses no lethal threat to those under 35.
@petitbleu it all depends on the office- many office workers work in open floor plans, 9 hrs per day alongside folks who take public transportation to get to work. They ride on elevators where it is impossible to stand 6 ft apart, share a community kitchen area and bathrooms. Could be 100 or more people on their floor. At a small college, a professor may teach 2 classes per day, so be in a classroom for 3 hrs with perhaps 20 students per class, with more personal space then an office worker in an open floor plan.
As for dorms and colleges cafeterias, those are concerns for sure, yet many kids on campus share their bathroom with fewer people than a lot of office workers do.
As for kids using Clorox wipes, my kids always had them in the dorm room to wipe things down. Wanted to avoid catching colds. More kids than you think do this. Give them some credit. And while college campuses house a lot of people, there is significantly more space there than a cruise ship or prison.
Practically speaking a dorm can have social distancing measures applied with some enforcement but it would take all the fun out of the experience:
Only one person allocated per bed room,
Have canteens be takeaway only
Remove all indoor communal areas
Ban congregating in the corridors
Limit number of people allowed in lifts, kitchens, communal bathroom, laundry room Etc at a time.
Ban intermixing of people of different floors, apartment, block, or however the dorm is designed
But where would the hundreds or thousands of students live who are normally dormed in double rooms?
The only way that would be possible is if they had a lottery to decide who gets to live on campus since college dorms do not typically have private rooms. Where will all the extra students live?
One way it could work would be accepting inequity. Allowing only majors that need in-person classes to live on-campus/in-person classes. (Performing arts, certain lab based classes, med students, etc.) But, I doubt anything deemed “unfair” would ever be accepted by college students/paying parents.
For residential colleges, wearing masks in public spaces, plentiful testing, breaking up or moving large classes online, no large gatherings, and protections for faculty and staff (e.g., tall plexiglass between dining hall staff and students, vulnerable faculty zoom into their classes) would significantly reduce the risk to everyone. Trying to keep students on campus as much as possible would also be helpful – this is where small colleges have an advantage. Remember, countries with robust testing and contact tracing have been successful and are open for business – see South Korea.
The high level of social distancing we have in place is b/c that’s the only tool at our disposal in the absence of testing and tracing. Once those are in place, we won’t need to socially distance to the same extent as now, though mask wearing in public spaces will be with us til there’s a vaccine b/c it’s a simple way to limit spread.
I think re-opening will depend on colleges’ access to tests (including PPE) and an app that will allow contact tracing. They are working on securing both now and – given how badly the federal government has bungled this – I have no idea if they will be successful. They need assurances by early July that both could be avail end of Aug. Some might push start date a month or so and reduce winter break.
And, yes, they will need a plan to isolate positive students and be able to zoom them into their classes if they are asymptomatic. For sick students, many, but not all, parents would come drive students home or care for them in a hotel or such.
There is a path for residential colleges, but they are having to scramble for resources just like states and it’s a matter of how long it will take to get them.
The wildcard is treatment breakthroughs – many existing drugs being tested in small trials right now. If anything is shown to be highly effective in the next six weeks, that could be a game changer. No idea how likely, but important to try to stay positive!
So much is unknown that I’m not confident about making any predictions except this one: if there’s a contact tracing app, coming back to campus will be contingent on a student’s opting in. In other words, kids won’t be allowed back on campus unless they are using the app.
And as a parent, I am still more concerned about other dangers that my kids my face at college( like car accidents, binge drinking, and sexual assault) than I am about the risks posed to my 18 and almost 21 year old. So I won’t hold them back from living at school, I will hope that they continue to show good judgement.
DS was able to sign up yesterday for Wilderness to Wake, one of WFU’s preorientation summer programs. Students spend a few days on the Appalachian Trail just prior to move in. I’ll take it as a hopeful sign that there will be an on campus experience this fall.
We will see tremendous variations by state. North Carolina had a very mild experience with COVID, with few deaths and those that did die were almost all quite elderly. I expect we will see a lot of last-minute transfer attempts away from NYC/NJ schools to those opening in person in the fall.
Funny, I read that also and tweeted him and asked to post where he gleaned that from.I am reading something different and posting sources:
<young and=“” middle-aged=“” people,=“” barely=“” sick=“” with=“” covid-19,=“” are=“” dying=“” of=“” strokes=“” doctors=“” sound=“” alarm=“” about=“” patients=“” in=“” their=“” 30s=“” 40s=“” left=“” debilitated=“” or=“” dead.=“” some=“” didn’t=“” even=“” know=“” they=“” were=“” infected=“”>
Doesn’t the president of Purdue watch the news?
https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-healthy-boy-13-is-youngest-uk-victim-11966526
Actual Kids are dead because of covid-19.
Yes, a handful of kids have died, most of whom were medically fragile. Even in NYC, 99.95% of COVID victims were over age 20, and I expect the numbers were not too far off for over age 35, and that the Purdue president is relying on science. That Washington post headline was ridiculous, and changed only after numerous readers complained that the original headline, young people, hardly applied to those aged 49 in the study. People aged 35-50 absolutely are at risk, but let us not extrapolate that to others when the scientific evidence does not support that.
@msdynamite85 I don’t think that was his point. The risk (and I don’t have a number handy) isn’t zero, but is so tiny that it approaches zero for the age group.
For various reasons, I do think additional issues such as the clotting example are a concern generally, but I’m not aware of data on that, at least not for the younger age group. Fortunately there are effective anticoagulant treatments of various kinds; it’s just a matter of figuring out best approaches, who needs what and when, which is going to take some time. (Side note, I saw an article last night discussing possible reduction in infectivity via certain anticoagulants, interesting stuff!)
Data and treatments are the big issues in my mind. It seems to me that much better data should be available in another 2-3 months. And there are lots of irons in the fire on treatments; unfortunately it takes some time to run studies. Anything that potentially reduces severity of symptoms will go a long way toward getting campuses open.
So, NY breaks out fatalities by age and also within the age groups, by comorbidities. In the past month, 9 kids age 19 or younger have died. Only 2 are listed as having comorbidities (one, hypertension, and one diabetes). Of course 9 pales in comparison to other age groups, but nine healthy kids dying in a month’s time is not nothing. If we were in different circumstances, 9 kids dying in one state in one month would be HUGE news.
This of course, does not include anyone in their twenties, and half of college students are in their twenties, so the numbers of fatalities – while still small compared to other age ranges – would be larger.
I don’t know what actions should be taken or not taken based on the above; I just want to push back a little on the assumption that college age students face no or almost no risk. Though of course agree the amount of risk they face is lower than other age groups.
I think perhaps our differing perspectives are partly due to how close COVID is to each of us. If we personally know people who’ve died, I suspect our take on the situation is very different from those who know no one affected and have very few cases in their area.