From the limited information I’ve been getting from universities here in Canada I suspect what we will be seeing in the fall is a hybrid approach. Large lectures where physical distancing is not feasible will be online with smaller in-person tutorials/labs. Smaller sized courses will still go ahead in person, most likely in larger lecture halls allowing for greater physical distancing. Sports, clubs, and on-campus recreational facilities will continue to be cancelled. What I am uncertain about is how on campus residence and food services will be handled.
I can’t keep up with this thread but I don’t think this has been posted yet. UCSD sent an update to prospective students as to how the fall may look.
The update explains why tuition will not be decreased next year.
Regarding housing,
And a new potential side-effect from the virus impacting kids
I think this is a really good point. It is hard for us to switch from face-to-face courses to entirely online courses, and do it well. So this is why these decisions will be made rather sooner than later (and indeed are going on below the surface at the moment), so that professors can convert their courses.
The other way around (moving back from online to face-to-face) can be done on a dime, because we have all of that stuff ready to go.
So, yes, if there’s some kind of breakthrough on the stopping the spread or an effective treatment, it would be relatively easy to reverse course, in my opinion.
I think you misunderstood petitbleu’s meaning. The virus cannot be transmitted by penetrating the plexiglass and passing through it, but it can be transmitted by an infected person touching or coughing on any number of surfaces and then another person touching the same surface - anything from papers, books, and computer keyboards or screens to doorknobs, desk or table tops, lab surfaces, etc.
Ah, yes, I did misunderstand. When s/he said “through surfaces”, s/he meant “through contact with surfaces”. That makes much more sense. Thank you.
If sports, clubs, recreation are cancelled, that makes me think many other ECs will be cancelled too. And that makes me want my kid to take a gap year, as too much of the product that we are paying for is missing. We are a donut hole family and we’ve saved since our kids birth for this experience. My guess is there are a lot of other families who send their kids to US colleges would feel the same way I do. Since Canadian universities are much more reasonably priced than US universities, expectations of what the experience should be, and what you are paying for, might be different.
My current prediction for most colleges:
- By early summer, colleges will tell students/faculty that they expect to be open for in-person instruction in fall but with many precautions and contingency plans. They need both the R&B and tuition revenue to sustain their operating expenses so they will open at all costs but will have a back-up plan for online instruction;
- In the fall, once students are back on campus, there will likely be flare-ups (spike) of the virus & flu at the same time that will "panic" the universities and most students will once again be sent home. Since students will have already been committed to the 2020/2021 school year, no tuition discounts.
- With colleges recently closed in October/Nov, online learning will continue through the spring 2021 just like it is currently. Spring classes will not be pushed to summer since the colleges need the revenue associated with summer classes, camps, etc. and allow students to do internships, research or work. They will want to stay on the normal semester/quarter cycle as much as possible as not to disrupt the following year's academic year.
The only way I see colleges being open for residential on-campus living and in-person instruction for the full academic year is a) vaccine (not likely); b) very good medicines to treat the symptoms and sick; or c) more social distancing requirements but ultimately societal acceptance that many will get the virus but with most having mild symptoms and quick recoveries (similar to how we are conditioned to accept the seasonal flu). The jury is still out on just how lethal CV-19 is?
This last point I think will be the toughest as we need to decide how much illness do we accept as part of living in a society to have a “normal” community experience? I don’t know the answer to this question…
I think it’s realistic to consider changes to the thanksgiving and holiday plans for vulnerable individuals until much more is learned.
My d22 will not come home from school for the holiday with my wife’s issues.
Maybe they’ll have student holiday gatherings and allow campuses to stay open. Not ideal but much better than some of the alternatives.
We are more than willing to make this change to a year or two of holidays to support her opportunity and education. We are all living over zoom now anyway. What’s the difference.
The risk to college students of a bad outcome from covid infection (hospitalization or death) is microscopic. Colleges and universities cannot continue online learning and await a vaccine or curative treatment which may never come. The value of the education is seriously diminished and the financial hit from reduced enrollment and revenue will put many colleges out of business. Of course, colleges students interact with older professors and community members who may be more vulnerable. The vulnerable population need to be isolated to reduce their risk . This is a risk benefit analysis that is a feature of government policy making. There is no perfect, risk free solution.
Honestly, once students are on campus the incentive is to keep them there. When they go home they can come back infected as well as potentially infect others. (I agree about keeping students away from vulnerable folks when they do come home.)
I wonder if colleges will consider late start semesters (to have more time to prepare) that then run until the Christmas/holiday break. No Fall break and no Thanksgiving break. Students could have a day off here and there for R&R and to avoid burnout, but encouraged not to go home. (Make the days off on Wednesday so not tempted to go home for long weekend if it’s nearby.) And students whose homes are located in hot spots would be allowed to stay on campus over the winter break?
Just a thought, but some of these schemes could run up against the various unions.
So students from all over are returning to a rural LAC with very few cases in the a area. The vulnerable residents of said rural town should be expected to isolate?
@TomSrOfBoston But what if your infected but asymptomatic kids bring the virus home for Thanksgiving and infect you and grandma/pa and their aunts and uncles?
I will have a high school senior next year. Even if I continued to shelter in place, do I really think my senior won’t bring the virus home to me? Not a chance. I know K-12 will open next year as our governor has been clear that school is needed for childcare and food (no concern for education).
So should I have my high school and college age children move out for the next year so they don’t bring the virus home?
If people want to continue to shelter in place until a vaccine by all means go for it.
I think a later start is worse than an earlier start. Why not start in Aug before the Flu season hits. ? One of my kids goes to school in upstate NY. I think the biggest issue they will face is freshman housing. I think classes can be SD. and upper level housing is apartments (either university owned or off campus). Based on Cuomo’s plan for open/close (and upstate is different then downstate), having a place to isolate those who are sick is a part of it (if they cannot go “home”). There are many hospitals nearby. Due to the amount of classes that need to be done in labs , the online structure does not work well.
My other childs Urban school. likely online.
Communities all over the country are going to have this issue, even if colleges are online only. Colleges, and city/state governments need a plan to address the issues that will arise.
If online only, students who live off campus will be moving in to their housing and should quarantine for 14 days, unless they have a negative test for active infection.
If school is in-person, active infection tests should be necessary for all incoming students, and contact tracing, quarantine and isolation procedures in place.
Good points. Why not open in mid/late July?
Probably the case. With respect to the colleges, they will soon be hitting hard deadlines on planning for the fall 2020 term (quarter system colleges have about five extra weeks compared to semester system colleges).
With respect to everyone else, there seems to be a vocal dichotomy between “open everything up, let the unlucky die” versus “keep most things closed until a vaccine, no matter how much it costs”, rather than considering the possibility of improved knowledge in the next few months (sooner than a vaccine) allowing for a path between then and a vaccine that might not require the worst of either of these scenarios.
On the other hand, if knowledge does not improve quickly enough, or poor policy and individual choices are made, we could end up with the worst of both scenarios (lots of deaths and long term disabilities and a depressed economy because people are too fearful to go back to normal even if everything is open). Unfortunately, this worst of both scenarios is looking more and more likely these days.
@sylvan8798 – It’s a global health pandemic so I’d hope that unions would be flexible as long as what they’re being asked is within reason. Hopefully colleges are bringing them in the conversation. It’s in their interest that colleges not lose students and $$ too b/c with that comes job losses.
I understand many anticipating bad outcomes and news. It’s been a rough road we are all traveling together.
Personally, I am very pragmatic but hopeful. I don’t see it that way at all.
The virus infections, hospitalizations, icu admittance is really slowing down, testing is scaling, fatalities are decreasing, liquidity has been injected into the economy and states are carefully opening up.
It seems like some green shoots coming up, slowly and carefully.
Fits and starts are to be expected imho.
I’m not sure what everyone is expecting but it’s mildly encouraging and a 3 phased approach was laid out by the medical experts. I’ll listen to them as it’s been pretty accurate so far.