I think it is this to a large extent. There is this undertone in her school between the academic haves and the academic have nots. This has nothing to do with money or SES or even parent education, one of the most educated and helo moms I know has a kid who is just not academic, nothing she can do. There are wealthy and less wealthy kids on both sides but in general the non honors kids do not socialize with the honors/APs kids (it comes from the non honors kids). It is not rational I realize but I am not sure how to fight it. Rutgers/Binghamton is considered an acceptable though far from ideal place for the honors kids to end up as the non honors kids will not get in for the most part.
@doschicos - you are correct about American, it is technically in the City, not a suburb. It has a suburban feel as we both agree, perhaps like Riverdale would be to Manhattan, although both are NYC. My daughter loves the campus feel and beautiful and safe area with the easy access to the “downtown”. It is not top 30 however and expensive so may not fit OP’s and daughter’s criteria.
Your D will have nothing to do with the kids from her HS aprox. 12 minutes after HS graduation.
I would not let perception by her classmates dictate how you spend your tuition dollars and how she spends the four years of her college education.
A bunch of 17 year olds are going to weigh in on your D’s intellectual growth and exploration?
American does give decent merit aid, however, and with some interest shown I think the OP’s daughter would get a discount off sticker price.
I agree with Blossom and personally would much prefer UVM to Rutgers for many reasons.
Haverford and Swarthmore are all in suburban Philadelphia. While they may be smaller than your D wants, they are part of a consortium with Bryn Mawr, which provides more opportunities for academics and ECs than each college on its own. My D (BMC grad) had friends involved in Hillel–students in all three colleges participated. Might be worth looking at Haverford and Swat offer in terms of Jewish life on campus.
^Jewish students are well represented in the Quaker Consortium colleges. They would fit OP’s daughter’s criteria except for size but maybe collectively as a consortium one could be acceptable.
Seems like there is a very real possibility that she will have no desirable college options next April, and you will be back here posting “shut out, what do we do now?”.
American is a lovely school but I wouldn’t count on merit aid. My D with higher stats was offered no merit aid at all and she demonstrated tons of interest. Even with typical merit aid it is still pretty pricey. I’d say apply if she is interested but do not consider it a financial safety.
What is wrong with Case Western? I think TCNJ is also a good idea.
Its often not helpful for folks to throw out schools for the student to turn her nose up at. Begins to sound like Goldilocks. Better for the student, IMO, to take some greater ownership of her college search. Too picky and yes, there is the risk of a shutout. The Hillel guide is somewhat helpful, as is the Yale Daily News’ Insiders guide to college. Have her look at that book and see if schools jump out to her. And sit back and encourage her to drive this process.
U Richmond or Wake Forest?
Read the whole thread. I think Rochester is worth visiting as it’s potentially an ideal fit. It’s almost walking distance from the airport. Lehigh is a good choice, but quite different.
Lehigh admits a very high percentage of their ED applicants, so if she wants an quick exit to the process, there you have it. There is zero chance she’ll be denied in the ED pool. You could even do an ED to Tufts, and it if doesn’t fly, perhaps do an ED2 to Lehigh.
My D hated Brandeis and like Tufts too. There is no getting around the fact that Brandeis is really ugly.
Wesleyan is pretty big for a liberal arts college and despite the name, it’s secular.
I have a relative who had terrific stats who went to TCNJ and is doing great.
Off the beaten path, I was thinking about Queen’s University in Kingston, Ontario as a high quality safety that’s not urban.
You seem willing to spend more money if a school is ranked higher than your in state options, but won’t spend the extra money if a school is ranked about the same or lower. You also acknowledged that there is peer pressure ( not uncommon). Am I wrong?
I would go about this differently. First of all I would pick a number that you can afford to spend regardless of ranking- you will spend xx amount on a fit school. Do not make her think that a school ranked #52 is worth more than a school ranked #68. Then I would stop suggesting and/or influencing her and I would let her drive the process. Something has to give or she will be at Rutgers, which Is perfectly fine. Too big, too small, too far, too urban, too cold, too southern…Nothing will be perfect. Just advise her to have some safeties because your original list is reach heavy. Good luck!
I think her best bet is to expand the geography of her search. Get out of the Northeast and off the beaten track. (Unfortunately, WUSTL & Emory don’t count anymore). How about College of Charleston? Urban but Charleston is small and lovely.
I also think the consortium consisting of Haverford, Swarthmore, Bryn Mawr and Penn is worth looking at. I know you said she had discarded women’s colleges but Bryn Mawr is virtually next door to Haverford. And the consortium expands the size of her cohort and gives her access to Penn.
And I am a big fan of University of Rochester. If she can tolerate cold, it’s a great option.
I agree with this. Especially Vanderbilt and WashU. And Tufts if she’s not applying ED. Cornell may be a lower reach if she is interested in any of the programs in the School of Human Ecology, or possibly ILR—if she applies ED. By the way, Cornell is in a very rural area. Also on that list, Emory might not be as much of a reach if she applies ED and is not applying for FA (they are need aware).
Like people upthread, I was going to suggest University of Vermont and University of Richmond. It’s crazy that she rejected Richmond because she “heard” something. You know, applying is not a commitment to attend. Apply widely, and after the acceptances are in she can look at them with a sharper lens.
Binghamton is a good choice, but it’s rural. I think Rutger, Maryland, and Michigan are good choices for her too, but you don’t like Michigan and Maryland. What about University of Florida? University of Toronto? McGill?
Your daughter has a lot of restrictions. If I were you, I’d back off and let her drive the process. As it’s going now, it seems that you suggest and she rejects. Let her find the right ones, and you be the one to forbid or permit.
My youngest (boy with Jewish last name) had similar likes and similar stats. Goldilocks kid - everything was too big, too small, too urban, too rural etc. He gravitated to campuses that were near cities or in residential areas of cities. He got into U of Chicago EA to our amazement so don’t rule it out. I think they liked his essays (humorous and a bit edgy) and I know he had excellent recommendations and a demanding schedule, that we hoped would make up for a transcript with a lot of B+ grades. He also disliked Brandeis, but liked Tufts. He actually liked American a lot, more than some of his reachier schools. He hated GW (and NYU and BU and NE) with the lack of campus and didn’t apply. (Actually GW does have a more bucolic satellite campus that he refused to look at.) He was okay with Vassar and got in there (no doubt being male helped there), but in the end thought it was too small. In the end he had one safety (American), another safety after being accepted EA, and the rest of the list was all reaches. He got lots of rejections, but had some very good choices too. Ended up at Tufts.
American is not in a suburb by any means, it’s well within the city limits, but it is in an upscale residential part of Washington.
Emory is need-blind for domestic students, although it is need-aware for international students.
Interesting list with top 60 schools by Jewish population: http://www.hillel.org/about/news-views/news-views—blog/news-and-views/2015/06/24/2015-top-60-schools-by-jewish-student-population. Emory is #10 for private universities on this list (17% Jewish). Emory definitely does not have a Southern school feel (and it has no football team, which is very un-Southern) - it is in a very progressive area (technically Atlanta address but borders Decatur (and maybe is partially in Decatur?)), a fairly liberal area that has more of a vibrant town feel. Atlanta is very easily accessible (15-20 minutes), but Emory has the nice defined campus and doesn’t feel really urban, but definitely does not feel suburban or rural either. Many, many kids from the NE and California, from all over the country really, and all over the world.
Hi SaphireK. I am assuming your 3.8 is unweighted correct? If yes my D has a 3.86 unweighted average and a 32 on the ACT and we are white and Jewish as well although we live in Florida. I don’t think the issue is your daughter’s stats. Her stats may not be ivy stats but they are solid and there are plenty of great options in that range. A strong Jewish community was very important to my D too and some of the schools that your D nixed are the best known for that like Miami, BU, and Maryland. My daughter loves everything about Miami except that it is too close too home. I would also suggest UF - huge Jewish population and they love out of state applicants because everyone in Florida has a prepaid plan. I agree with one of the previous posts that your D needs to prioritize what is most important to her. Size? Location? Jewish life? Also, I told my D that this is just four years of her life. It will be over in a blink and then on to graduate school or whatever comes next. Sometimes its hard for them to have that perspective.
Why is she opposed to Miami (OH)? My son just started there and there has been so much contact from the Hillel that it’s unbelievable. Lots of programming and really nice people. There is also a Chabad there. It is in a really cute college town, but I guess it might be a problem for your daughter because it is surrounded by farms once you get outside the town. It doesn’t feel rural when you are on campus or in town though. Campus is breathtakingly gorgeous. We also liked the size of the school, 16,000 students - not too big or too small.
It is not easy to find that sweet spot - not too big or small or urban or rural - for a boy or a girl. The top 40 national Us have gotten very competitive and there are lots of kids with 3.8s and decent scores trying to get into those schools. Lehigh could be a great choice - it’s the right size and not too far away. U of Rochester is a great school too, with lots of excellent students.
American may be seen more like a match or even safety for her, but it is a great school with lots of opportunity. I would not pay OOS for UVM. U Richmond could be a good choice too.
A safety will not be a school in the thirties for the most part, unless that 3.8 puts her near the top of her class. If you aren’t willing to pay for a school like American, then the in-states would be her safety. Does your school have naviance or some way for her to gauge her competitiveness at her reaches?
While it may be harder for girls at some schools, I don’t think it would be “much easier” for a boy with same stats at her reaches.