This discussion was created from comments split from: Science Course Progression For My Child?.
What a timely and valuable information! Thanks all for offering helps.
My homeschooled daughter took Chemistry in the Fall Semester, and is taking Biology and Physics in the Spring Semester at a community college. All three are non-major courses, meaning that they are one level lower than AP.
She is going to enter a competitive high school this Fall as a freshmen. What would be a good science plan for four years? Any suggestion would be appreciated.
What is her math level? What are her interests and career goals, if any? What are the high school’s requirements and how do they view her coursework?
She has done basics of math up to Algebra II. Just enough to pass community college’s placement test to register to those science courses, but I think she would have to start from Algebra II this Fall at a competitive high school. She is pretty good at problem solving, but has spent too little time and effort because of her visual art. She is planning to catch up a lot this semester.
Her career goal is undecided. She has been a sculpture student until last year, but wants to do something else now. She is interested in environment, finance, and politics.
We won’t know what high school she will be accepted until March 10. So we don’t know on that area.
If you and the school consider that she has already completed the equivalent of honors bio, chem and physics I would suggest honors earth science in 9th and APEnvironmental, which is regarded as an easy science AP in 10th.
Are these equivalent to year-long high school chemistry, biology, and physics (intended for students who need to prepare for frosh-level college courses in those subjects), or are they courses of the “physics for poets” type (typically only for general education)?
If they are equivalent to year-long high school courses, then she can choose advanced/AP/college courses in any of them if she is interested, or choose any other science courses that she is interested in. If not, then it is best if she completes the high school courses in those sciences where the previously taken college courses are not considered sufficient prerequisites for frosh-level college courses.
She had one year each of life science, earth science, and physical science with lab with a private group from a former middle school science teacher. Would high school earth science be much different from middle school one?
They are probably similar to a year-long high school science. They are 4 semester units each, and a lab with heavy lab report each week. They are still for general education. Physics and Biology are marked as non-major. Chemistry is marked as a prereq for major Chemistry and Biology courses.
Here is an example community college catalog of physics courses:
http://www.ccsf.edu/en/educational-programs/ccsf-catalog/courses-by-department/phyc-courses.html
Physics 2A/2AL, 2B/2BL: physics for biology majors and pre-meds
Physics 4A/4AL, 4B/4BL, 4C/4CL, 4D/4DL: physics for physics majors
Physics 10/10L: physics for non-majors (“physics for poets”)
Physics 40 or 41: the courses most equivalent to a year long high school physics course, as preparation for 2A or 4A (however, these courses have no lab)
For chemistry, the preparatory course is Chemistry 40 (prerequisite to Chemistry 101A).
http://www.ccsf.edu/en/educational-programs/ccsf-catalog/courses-by-department/chem-courses.html
For biology, the preparatory course is Biology 11 (prerequisite to Biology 101A)
http://www.ccsf.edu/en/educational-programs/ccsf-catalog/courses-by-department/bio-courses.html#contentparsys_ccsftitle_3
The questions to consider are:
a. Is she interested in taking any of the sciences at a more advanced level?
b. Is she interested in taking any other sciences (if offered at the high school or nearby community colleges)?
c. How do colleges look at semester-long preparatory physics/chemistry/biology at community college as substitutes for high school physics/chemistry/biology?
In terms of question (c), UC/CSU will count transferable courses with lab (see http://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/counselors/freshman/minimum-requirements/subject-requirement/index.html#lab ). All of the above courses are transferable, but Physics 40 and 41 do not have lab. However, private schools, particularly in other states where the transfer pathways from community colleges are used less than in California, may not be as willing to count community college courses.
What she’s been taking are equivalent to Physics 2A/2AL, Chemistry 40, and Biology 11.
a. Yes, all of them
b. Yes. ready for full of options in high school, but probably not much at community college any longer.
c. She doesn’t care if those non-major science courses will be transferred. She will take AP level courses either in high school or in college later.
I think she should just start on the three major science APs. AP Biology is a lot of work, but is not difficult. AP Physics C should wait till she’s in Calculus. You want to take enough math and science in high school that you have options. As an artist who is accelerated in math she might think about architecture, but she’s young no need to know now what she wants to do when she grows up! I’m not a big fan of earth science.
For chemistry and biology, it looks like she is ready for AP or similarly advanced level courses.
For physics, it looks like she can take AP physics 2 (since 1 duplicates the college course she is in) or switch to AP physics C (when ready from a math standpoint, since it uses calculus).
She can take them, and any science electives she wants, in any order within scheduling and prerequisite constraints at the high school.
Assuming AP Physics 1 & 2 are offered, how often do students take AP Physics 2 and Physics C? It makes sense for mine as she can take 2 in Freshman and C in Senior, But Taking 2 without 1 seems odd, and taking all 1, 2 and C seems a bit too focused on Physics. (Meaning that not much time for other science)
It only looks odd because not many students have had the equivalent of AP physics 1 elsewhere (a course like CCSF Physics 2A is what AP physics 1 tries to emulate).
Note that AP physics C is in two parts, mechanics and E&M. Each part may be a year-long or semester-long courses in high school.
I would suggest, for physics, either just AP physics 2, or wait until she is math-ready and then take both parts of AP physics C. There is not any real need to take all of these, although there are a few topics in AP physics 2 that are not covered in AP physics C.
Or she can defer the physics decision and take AP chemistry or biology in 9th grade.
AP Physics 2 or Honors Physics sounds most sensible for Freshmen, so that she can take one each of AP Chem, AP Bio, and AP Physics C during her 10th~12th years.
I suggested earth science because it’s a prereq. for APES, at least in our school. The only scientific interest the OP. mentions this student having is environmental science. I don’t see how it makes sense for her to ignore the kid’s interest and push her into AP Physics instead. Why not put her in APES and then she can choose some other science classes when she is older and may have new interests? I would suggest AP bio and AP chem as the most useful for environmental science.
Ah. In our school the regular bio course is all you need. I think EVERYONE should have a year of physics, bio and chem. After that you can take what you like. She’s got what is now 1/2 a year of physics. If it were me I’d take bio and chem APs first then see which physics to take to get the missing material, or perhaps indeed decide to do Environmental something instead or in addition to the science APs. But there’s no one right answer here.
@mathyone, she is interested in saving the Environment rather than in Environment Science. But APES makes a lot of sense as it seems is easier.
Of course, she may change her mind about her college major in the next four years.
A reasonable plan based on her background and stated interest in taking more advanced science courses is to take the following in any order (within prerequisite and scheduling constraints):
- AP chemistry
- AP biology
- AP physics 2 **or** AP physics C (both parts, after completing sufficient math)
- any elective science if she wants
Thanks for the suggestions. Her major used to be sculpting. She can finish her BFA in two years if she still wants it. But she doesn’t and now has no idea what her new college major will be. She plans to figure out during her high school years.