Science says--nevermind

@emerald-
They should have called it climate change from the start, the blew it with global warming, not because it is wrong (this January was the second warmest January on record, despite the cold snap in the midwest), but because you then have idiots like James Inhouffe saying when it is freezing in parts of the country “yuck, yuck, must be global warming” (course, doesn’t mention that Alaska was running 20 degrees warmer then normal, and that SF had temperatures in the 80’s in January and February).

The problem with nutrition is that in many ways it is more akin to social science then hard science, it depends on studies that may or may not indicate causality, and it also relies a lot on doctors who are not scientists (there are scientists who are doctors, the researchers who go into pure research are more trained in science). The medical profession also operates on a model of “recommended protocol”, and few doctors have the time or energy to be checking the literature and thinking for themselves, not to mention that following “recommended protocol” is a way to stave off lawsuits. Part of the problem is that it seems really logical to assume dietary cholesterol had a direct tie to heart disease, you look at fats and they are sticky, and fats clog up drains,so therefore of course it does. The problem is a lot of nutrition information comes about this way, in many ways the theories and ideas put out there are not challenged, it is kind of like throw something out there and see what sticks.

With heart disease, the problem is that they often didn’t go beyond simple correlations. For example, it has been well known that Niacin can improve the HDL/LDL ratio that doctors use (which in of itself is an approximation, the LDL particle count is accurate), so they tell people with heart health history in the family to take it…and recently, they basically found that it treated the symptom (ie bad HDL/LDL level), but in a longitudinal study, it didn’t do anything to prevent heart disease, which indicates that the HDL/LDL ratio in of itself is a symptom of something deeper. In science, they would test a hypothesis like that, figure out why HDL/LDL ratio’s seemed to indicate the risk of heart problems, but in nutrition and health they just assumed that was the golden indicator. Even when they do controlled studies, they don’t listen to the results. There was a famous study, done a long time ago, called the Framingham study, where they monitored diet and blood cholesterol and heart disease, and what the study basically seemed to indicate was what we are hearing today, that dietary cholesterol has nothing to do with heart disease or for that matter, with serum blood cholesterol. Then it was discovered that the cholesterol causes plaque because of scarring (and inflammation) to the artery walls, that cholesterol was not in of itself bad. I read something recently where they think the mania for low fat diets might have caused major harm, it seems like there is a link between low fat diets and Alzheimers, that it may be triggered (as one of many causes) by the brain being starved of fats.

Too, you have to remember the politics of it all. The low fat/grain based diet is a big boon to the farm industry, one of the biggest recipients of government generated PR of any industry, the FDA in large part tries to promote the idea of low fat/high grain diets, because it benefits the farm businesses. Likewise, doctors are often driven by the pharmaceutical industry, who benefit them tremendously. There is a website that tracks how much money doctors get from the pharm representatives, in the form of various kind of perks, it is not small. So now that they are saying blood cholesterol is genetic, guess what, they are putting millions more on statin drugs, that make huge profits for the pharm industry…when the statins may be causing damage themselves (among other things, they decrease coq10 levels that the heart needs, yet it is still not standard protocol to have people on statins take coq10).

Where nutrition is similar to science is there are corrective mechanisms there, things are tested, albeit slowly, but there also is a lot of intertia there, due to political and other factors. The difference between climate change and for example, dietary cholesterol, is that as time has gone on there has been more and more evidence that climate change is real (one example, the polar pack ice is dissapating at an accelerated rate), and more and more scientists, including skeptics, are confirming it is real, whereas there literally are no scientists who supported climate change theory who are saying it isn’t true, the skeptics tend to be either long term ones, or ones who never took a position and suddenly say “It isn’t real” (and you find 6 figure payouts in their bank accounts, or more).

It is frustrating, but the other reason is the human body and human physiology isn’t that easy to unlock. They still don’t fully understand the genetics behind how the body works, and they are finding that blanket statements, like “if you do x, this happens, Y, this happens”, may not be so true for a lot of people.

Research has backed up his claims about insulin in susceptible individuals. Insulin resistance, metabolic syndrome, etc. does apply to a certain proportion of the obese.

And I agree that some of the practices of certain researches, as well as that of certain politicians, is indeed “chilling.”

A recent study looked at the lower incidence of peanut allergies in Israel than in countries with otherwise similar patterns of allergies and asthma. It turns out that Israelis commonly feed their babies a peanut snack called Bamba. The new thinking is that the increase in the incidence of peanut allergies in the US is due to the fact that parents here have been warned to delay feeding their kids peanut products when perhaps they should have been doing exactly the opposite.

^^^I read something similar to that the other day, but it was based on an actual research study. The study only looked at kids who were already at risk for peanut allergy, not kids considered low risk.

^^This is the NEJM paper:

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1414850

And this is an interesting report about the investigational product to reduce the severity of peanut allergies. The doc featured in the story treated baby kiddo’s EIB. Really smart guy!

http://kuow.org/post/peanut-patch-gives-11-year-old-allergy-sufferer-little-bit-cushion

Add to this study the one where washing dishes by hand vs sterilizing them in the dishwasher led to less asthma and respiratory problems in children. The germs left over build up the immune system. Which makes sense. You have to build up immunity to the germs around you. Of course regular hugs and kisses probably work pretty well too.

@‌ gouf78-
I have read the same thing, that one of the reasons kids seem to be more allergic to things and potentially things like asthma is that kids are often being raised where they are not exposed to things they way they once were, often in the name of ‘keeping them sage’. I am not of the school of thought that everything in the ‘good old days’ was so good (like the idiots who say bullying is a part of life, it toughens you, etc), but I do think we are all so germ phobic that kids are kept almost in an isolation bubble. Kids are kept from playing in the dirt, from running around and getting dirty, and with the carefully arranged play dates you are around a lot smaller group of people and so forth. Not to mention the parents that the minute the kid touches something ‘dirty’ they are on them with the Purelle and such…

With nut allergies, I really wonder if it isn’t the lack of exposure, because there are kids who have allergies from birth, really bad ones, there has been a large amount of exposure to the fact that some kids are allergic to nuts, and parents shy away from them afraid the kid will be allergic…and like with germs, may be creating a self fulfilling prophesy.

Finish that donut. Obesity in middle age cuts the risk of dementia.

http://m.stltoday.com/news/national/new-research-being-fat-in-middle-age-cuts-risk-of/article_05bf2e11-3342-58ba-b13b-fc8d76fcac5a.html?mobile_touch=true

Gosh I hope there’s truth to this. At 82, my mom suffers from dementia, and it’s horrible. Three nights ago she forgot that her parents were dead, and my sister and I had to explain that they were. If I have to risk diabetes or a heart attack to avoid being confused like that, I will do so.

Great news after I just lost 15# :-(.

.

This lends validity to my own child rearing philosophy which included the adage…pet hair is a food group…go for it.

Apparently, there is some disagreement over the exact nature of the “effect”. This is often what happens when scientific findings get communicated to a non-scientific audience and can lead to misunderstandings.

How so?^^^^

I think it has to do with controlling the parameters of the study. The study says that certain associations may exist between types of cholesterol and heart disease. The public hears: “Cholesterol bad”.

^^the public goes even further - “anything that has cholesterol in it is bad!”

I like the last paragraph of the link in the GMT’s post above - yeah, you might have a lower chance of developing dementia late in life… if the heart disease and diabetes do not do you in before you can enjoy dementia-free retirement. :slight_smile:

The dementia argument sounds like nonsense. Diabetes is one of the risk factors for dementia, as is obesity, and high inflammatory markers.

http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/dementia/basics/risk-factors/con-20034399

More recent science “good news”:
Heavy coffee drinking cancels out the liver damage of heavy alcohol drinking

http://www.upi.com/Health_News/2015/03/28/Coffee-erases-liver-cancer-risk-caused-by-daily-alcohol-consumption/3491427565287/

Lol, my math teacher was right all along. A negative times a negative is a positive.

But doesn’t obesity also reduce the chance of living long enough to worry about dementia?

Ultimately, we each have genetic predispositions to particular conditions. But, the type of individualized testing it would take for you to discover the optimal diet, lifestyle, etc. to prolong YOUR particular life, and to be on the lookout for the diseases/conditions that YOU are likely to develop, is cost prohibitive for the vast majority of Americans.

Therefore, all of this (ever-changing) medical advice may be spot-on for some, and exactly the wrong thing for others. Most of these studies are generalized. Doctors practice “evidence based” medicine that relies on studies that were not actually performed on YOU.

Unless you have the $$$$, time and inclination to subject yourself to detailed and individualized testing and analysis (keeping in mind that such testing is not anywhere near the stage where it is relible for the vast majority of genetics anyway), it’s probably best to follow the old fashioned advice: ALL THINGS IN MODERATION !!