I guess I thought ECs were non-profits or club captaincies or sports or instruments. You and many others have pointed out that seemingly everything I do outside of school counts, though.
I cook and clean and read and play badminton (unorganizedly) and hang out with my friends and work at an Asian grocery store. Of those, I don’t know what counts as an EC and what doesn’t.
Not warm but i’ll put another vote in for Macalester
All of that except hanging out with friends. Make sure you get the family responsibilities in your activities and don’t underestimate your hours.
I would say your job at the grocery store is an important EC that I expect will be well received by admission officers. If you have significant responsibilities at home that would count as well. I would not consider reading, playing casual/unorganized sports, and hanging with friends as ECs.
I meant that I would prefer a lecture class to a lukewarm discussion. I am open to smaller-sized schools, too, which (according to your school) seem to offer non-lukewarm discussions earlier. I will look into the ones you’ve suggested.
When you say that it is easier to “find” rigor in college than in high school, what exactly do you mean? Will the classes in college by their tertiary nature be more difficult? What kind of “comfort zone” should I be trying to exit? A disciplinary one, by taking classes in areas that haven’t interested me as yet? A constitutional one, by taking a type of class that I haven’t before? A preferential one, by going to a type of university that I haven’t yet thought of myself as belonging to?
Not only can you turn those into ECs, they make you sound more “interesting” than the “I signed up for every resume filler I could” kids. They make you uniquely you, so be sure to speak about those experiences in your essays
Sorry, can you clarify what option two means? How does the art of becoming less uncomfortable with unscrupulosity apply to the application process? Does it mean that I should apply to universities that do care without ECs?
The suggestion here may be understood through its complement, that you become more comfortable with portraying yourself in a favorable light.
Some good options listed above. But with $200K parent income and a $60K/year budget you should really limit your list to schools with good merit scholarships. Many of those listed above don’t give merit scholarships and with that income, need-based won’t be sufficient to bring them into budget. In fact, most “reachy” schools don’t give much if any merit aid (if the acceptance rate is low, they don’t need to entice people with merit $), so it is probably good to start looking broader now.
I suggest use this tool as the basis for creating your list:
Some schools that might get you below or near $60K once merit scholarships are considered are:
Small/Med Schools:
Oberlin
Macalester
St. Olaf
Connecticut College
Grinnell College
University of San Diego
Muhlenberg College
Lafayette College
Dickinson College
Bigger Schools:
SUNY, Binghampton University
Loyola University Chicago
Purdue
University of Minnesota - Twin Cities
University of Pittsburgh
Rutgers University
Case Western Reserve
University of Colorado, Boulder
SUNY, Stony Brook
CalPoly University-San Luis Obispo
Univ of North Carolina, Chapel Hill
University of Connecticut
University of Wisconsin
University of Washington
Univ of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign
Univ of Utah
Schools listed in posts above that won’t give any (or won’t give sufficient) merit to bring costs down (and are therefore probably not worth applying to if your budget is $60):
U of Chicago
Tufts
Carleton
Reed
Pomona
All Ivy League schools (none give merit)
Swarthmore
Vassar
Harvey Mudd
Williams
Bowdoin
Hamilton
I’m going to take the opposite side of this. The common app personal statement should not be a rehash/recap of one’s activities. Can an activity be mentioned in it? Sure. And of course, if a supplemental essays asks something like what is your favorite activity, or why this major etc., then of course write about activities that fit the prompts.
I would encourage OP to look at the college essay guy. com site which has many free resources for how to write the personal essay including brainstorming exercises and sample essays. Conn College, JHU and Hamilton all publish real essays on their sites, so OP can check those out too.
This is not necessarily true, OP needs to run the NPCs with their parents.
I just ran Bowdoin’s NPC w/ 220K in income, 190K in assets/nonretirement savings, with no home equity, and the net COA estimate is $28K, so well below the target cost. Bowdoin’s NPC does tend to be accurate for straightforward family situations.
Yes, some school’s need-based calculations will work for those with $200K if they have low assets. So his personal situation might be different, but it is always good to have a lot of high-merit schools in the mix at that income level.
For example, tweaking your Bowdoin example a bit - If I put in $200K income and $80K in home equity and $300K in total savings (all of which seem reasonable for a family with 200K income) the NPC says to expect COA to be $88K.
Oh sorry, I will be more straightforward. My point is that I think you probably do already have ECs appropriate for the application, but are perhaps too humble to realize it and showcase what you do already. And I advise you to get over that, and learn how to “toot your own horn” a little.
For example you should absolutely showcase your home responsibilities and grocery store job. For example, do people count on you in these settings? Do you perhaps serve as a translator sometimes? You may regard these activities as “just what’s expected of a normal kid” but really they show hard work, initiative and leadership. They are good ECs. Even just sitting around thinking deeply can be an EC if you describe it right. Do you have particular interests that cause you to research and think? A kid who describes devoting a lot of time (for example) to reading French literature in the original French, might make a very successful candidate.
ETA: Sometimes when people are first learning how to “toot their own horn” it can make them feel a bit uncomfortable; they might worry they are “bragging” or “not being honest.” But really, it is ok to showcase what you do, be proud of it, and let people know about it on applications. Best wishes!
What I meant is that college is harder than high school, the expectations are higher, and more burden for learning is placed on the student. AP classes (the vast majority of them, anyway) really don’t replicate a college atmosphere or college-level expectations, simply because most people taking those classes aren’t used to doing college-level work. That may be less true for (taking one example) AP Physics C, because the students taking that class have already been through advanced science and math classes and are probably doing something close to college level work with peers who are doing the same. But for most AP classes, there is a much broader spectrum of students who are doing more or less honors-level high school work. So what I was trying to say was that the ceiling for rigor and academic engagement is much higher in college, and you can find it more easily in college if you want to. It’s also true that many college classes aren’t going to be sparkling with intellectual engagement. But regardless of what college you attend, you can find that if you want to.
As to getting out of your comfort zone – yes, all of the above! Sure, try classes in areas that haven’t interested you yet, but also in areas you haven’t had a chance to explore yet, because college-level offerings are so much broader and more diverse than in high school. I’m not suggesting you try to wedge yourself into a college or university that’s not a good fit (this seems to me a bad idea for a four-year investment), but at least you should consider a wide variety of schools and settings to see if something unexpectedly works for you. Mostly, I’m suggesting you keep an open mind.
Just to add my perspective, most typical ECs, don’t make any difference whatsoever. They are royally ignored by highly selective schools. And mid schools will not let go of a high stats applicant on account of lessor EC involvement.
It’s really sad that ECs have become just checklist items for college applications.
Most HS students fail to see how genuine EC involvement help them explore the world outside classroom, discover their real personality, teach essential life skills, and indirectly help with personal statements.
No wonder they are largely ignored by admissions, even though they don’t say it directly.
In reading your initial post, a school popped into mind. It is probably a likely or extremely likely admit for you, which isn’t what you said you were looking for. It has two campuses, both in cities, and both in warmer-than-Wisconsin locales (which you were hoping for). The campuses will be small…but I think that the intellectual conversations you crave will be rampant. The school? St. John’s College (no religious affiliation), the third oldest college in the U.S.
It has a campus in Annapolis, MD and a campus in Santa Fe, NM, and students can take classes at either campus. Students all have the same “major” as there’s an extraordinarily extensive core curriculum:
If the St. John’s Program were to be analyzed in credit hours to constitute traditional majors and minors, the coursework would correspond to two majors: one in history of mathematics and science, and the other in philosophy, including metaphysics, ethics, and political theory. The minors would be in classical studies and comparative literature. Beyond these fields, students also explore language, history, politics, law, economics, music, art, theology, math, science, and psychology. (Source)
All the classes have fewer than 20 students and they’re all designed as discussion classes. The whole point of St. John’s is to have intellectual discussions. Graduates from St. John’s have gone on to be successful in numerous fields (and definitely punch above their weight in terms of getting a doctorate in just about any academic field). It is very much a fit school, but if it’s the right fit, I think it could be a fantastic experience.
Here is the Colleges That Change Lives profile for St. John’s. It’s marketing material, but I think gives a good feel for the college: St. John’s College – Colleges That Change Lives
It’s going to be very tough if you have no EC’s. Schools, even the most intellectual of them, want to see you doing something besides academics. Volunteering, community-based projects are best. Start now.
OP does have ECs and listed them in post #21.
This is not true. I will only speak directly to the [highly rejective] school where I work…ECs are quite important in the decision making process.
I didn’t mean ECs are not important, please do consider the context in which it’s said. Typical ECs as a checklist fulfilling task don’t work at highly selective schools.
A single activity outside class that seamlessly blends into your overall application narrative will have a better impact than 10 ECs that a million other students also report.
It’s Ok if you disagree and know better, I appreciate your POV.
Another aspect of St. John’s is that they have excellent summer week long programs where you can experience reading and discussing an assigned book or collections of topics (those have several different readings/books). Our rising ninth grader took a virtual class on The Odyssey and loved it. Our S25 took an in person week