Thanks for the insights from recent posters on budget, upcoming virtual visits, and Washington and Lee.
Yes, I was clear that W&L was not the ideal environment for OP’s daughter, but that it is an opportunity for a cost free undergraduate education at a solid school. For one with a limited budget considering law school, it is an option to consider whether or not it is pursued.
OP’s daughter would be a good candidate for the Johnson Scholarship at W&L not only due to her academic qualifications, but also due to the fact that she would enhance the diversity of the community at this preppy, fratty school composed of a pervasive Greek social system. In short, W&L is the opposite of Oberlin & Macalester, but W&L does offer a true full ride plus scholarship to many students each year.
Leadership comes in many forms and OP’s daughter may be a leader in her interests.
OP’s daughter might find this to be of interest:
W&L also has a gaming club (eSports) which includes table-top gaming.
The highlighted sentence seems a bit contradictory. If I understand correctly, you have a budget of $60,000 per school year which might or might not make you a full-pay family depending upon the particular school.
Some of the colleges you suggest as being quirky are perhaps not really in that category. Of those listed, I’m thinking Scripps, St. Olaf, Muhlenberg, Wheaton, Fordham, and UNH are not quirky. Sure there are interesting people and good students at all of them, but I’m not sure they fit the description of what your daughter wants.
Back in the day, my daughter applied to or considered some of the schools you mentioned. I’d definitely say Whitman and Brandeis could fit, as well as Carleton, Kenyon, and Bates for reaches. If she is considering Midwest, Grinnell should absolutely be on the list, along with Oberlin. Goucher is very quirky if she needs another good bet school. For a bigger school than a typical LAC, consider U Rochester, with a very nice mix of science, nerdy, quirky kids and an under appreciated arts dept.
Some of the colleges I mentioned do not have lovely campuses. Notably Goucher and Brandeis. Not sure how important that is.
2 Likes
I think what they’re saying is - they don’t qualify for need aid - at any school in the country…but they’re only willing to pay $60K.
I was the same - but $50K.
In essence, they can’ afford any school’s sticker price…but they don’t want to afford any school’s sticker price.
2 Likes
I think Iowa and Ohio are out because they are not deemed LGBTQ friendly states. This will be interesting on Oberlin given that’s a large part of the population (their future). But OP has ruled out any states that aren’t regardless of the school. Post 111.
It’s funny you say that about Brandeis - not being attractive. They show up on the ugliest campus lists. But I’ve read at least several posts on the CC that say, my student finds it beautiful. So - beauty is in the eye of the beholder, I guess. Maybe those people went in with low expectations??
1 Like
I’ve never heard that Brandeis is on an ugly list, haha. We just thought it was not attractive when we visited. Interestingly though, when my daughter went there as a college freshman for a tournament, she liked the students she met so much than she had a brief notion of transferring there. Really, the appearance of the campus often ends up not being that important.
3 Likes
quick google search - #48.
For many (as I’ve read on here and both my kids) aesthetics mean near everything.
But - my kid loved Alabama more than Purdue (very nice) and WUSTL (most consider stunning) because Bama is - like Disneyland on steroids. It makes the others look like they are unkempt.
On the flipside, my daughter loved the charm and and historic-ness of College of Charleston far more than the beauty of a Miami Ohio or Elon. Urban-ness was her thing. Honestly, C of C (to me) is run down.
I thought Va Tech was easily the nicest large campus in America and Duke the nicest mid -size and she was bleh on both.
So everyone is different. And what matters to them is different - for some, aesthetics is the first factor in even keeping the school or not - before they learn anything about the school on their visit (we’ve read that from posters too…got on campus, was ugly, left).
2 Likes
I agree that Fordham (Rose Hill campus) doesn’t have a quirky vibe. But I would say Fordham LC does. No reason to consider either, however, unless OP’s student really wants to be in NYC.
Of the Minnesota schools mentioned in this thread, I agree that St. Olaf is less quirky than Macalester or Carleton. But I think it is quirky enough. It’s the sort of place where a lot of different vibes are welcomed and embraced. I’ve known some very quirky, nerdy, intellectual students who have thrived there.
2 Likes
I would put St. Olaf in the “quirky” column. They seem to encourage unconventional and individual paths, all with an intellectual-but-fun vibe. The mix of programs (strong music, but also Scandinavian studies, and also a religion/philosophical component to the curriculum) and possibilities for interdisciplinary concentrations attracts curious, earnest, and motivated students with wide-ranging interests. The people I know who have gone there fit that description, for sure. Not all that unusual for a LAC, but definitely on the quirky end of the LAC spectrum.
5 Likes
Quirkiness, like beauty, may be somewhat in the eye of the beholder. However, Scripps was definitely a place where my kid would have been comfortable, although my kid doesn’t love the heat (not a Minnesota problem most of the school year, haha). I associate quirkiness with deep interests and unconventional tastes, and I did see a lot of that during our interactions. Also, somewhat nerdy traditions (Scripps students have afternoon tea on Wednesdays and make olive oil!). From what I’ve seen, women’s colleges tend to be very LGBTQ+ friendly. I guess I’d describe it as warm, diverse and artsy. The campus vibe seemed calm, with beautiful Spanish style courtyards. Another Claremont Consortium school that might also be a fit is Pitzer – lots of politically passionate students there, and an active queer community. The Claremont colleges all have really different campuses and personalities (CMC, for example, all angular and modern, feels totally different from the tranquil Scripps or eclectic Pitzer environments, with a much more conservative political bent, but you still might spend time there for classes or the incredible speaker sessions via the Athanaeum that sometimes other Consortium students can attend). My impression at the time was that Scripps was potentially better on the merit scholarship front than Pitzer, but I’d look at the Common Data Sets for both to see what they give out.
One more word on Brandeis. Yeah, I didn’t think it was beautiful either, but the kids just walking around were SO NICE to my kid that it briefly shot up the list. We missed our tour and were navigating without a map, and students would spontaneously offer to escort us from spot to spot and answer questions, one kid walking well out of his way to get us turned around correctly. It fell off the list eventually, but we have warm feelings about the people we encountered.
2 Likes
The different perspectives about level of quirkiness are helpful and interesting. I don’t think any of our main contenders will drop off the list at this point after the largely positive feedback we have received here, but it is good to identify which facets of fit we should probe into more deeply for certain schools as the process proceeds.
D could not fit in an official Brandeis visit on her NE tour, but did have the opportunity to wander around campus briefly and to pop into the admissions office to say hello. The two students working in the admissions office that day were perfect for her to chat with and were extraordinarily friendly - 1 poli sci major, the other a mock trial participant. She found campus a little underwhelming from a nature perspective, but we learned later that campus is adjacent to some sort of park they didn’t see, so perhaps that would mitigate.
To answer an earlier question - we are full-pay in that we will not qualify for need-based aid. The 60k/yr budget for direct costs is what we are willing to pay. We can and will cover indirect costs on top of that.
5 Likes
I’ve visited some of these schools with my kids and live near others.
UVM- sould like exactly the types of students you D is looking for. My daughter is very liberal and she felt like it was a little too liberal for her. My frat-bro son ruled it out 1/4 of the way through the tour. Only negative is that it seems like it might be tough to get there from OR, and we found the number of homeless people in Burlington somewhat off-putting (and I grew up in Boston).
UNH- beautiful campus and a great little town right off campus. This seems like a bit of an outlier on your list. I’ve toured twice and I wouldn’t describe most kids as quirky or particularly liberal. Son has several friends there and none are in frats but they are that type of kids. Has a very different vibe than UVM.
Brandeis- also sounds somewhat like what you are describing. But there are lots of wealthy kids here. I personally think the campus is ugly (as do many others) but some love it. Kids uber into Boston a lot and lots like to hit the clubs there or go to BU or Harvard for parties (daughter had 2 friends that went there).
Wheaton-kids sound exactly like what you are describing but I feel like your D may be a bit above many of these kids academically. My best friend’s daughter is there and she was a solid B/C student in HS. She loves it and has done well. She is a self described total nerd, lesbian, and loves theatre and board games. She had a tough time in HS but has totally found her people. Campus is nice but in a suburb with not much there and not super close to Boston.
Muhlenburg campus felt small when we visited. And not sure if there was anything nearby to walk to. Tour really emphasized the arts which was not what my D was looking for so we took it off the list.
Someone else mentioned U of Denver and I would take a look at that school. My son attended and loved it. Yes, there are frats but there are also tons of very liberal kids and we found that everyone was just so genuinely nice. Most kids seemed to be from OOS. Lots of CA and the northeast but plenty of kids from elsewhere as well.
2 Likes
Maybe UNH and UVA have kids based on the state divide - one is a liberal state, one is not.
Interesting what OP or someone wrote up earlier about UVM - that maybe it’s not academicky enough unless you’re in Honors. It’s interesting to me because it’s a school with varying thoughts on the CC. I’ve read it’s just a bit marijuana party from several posters but then others say how strong it is academically. So people see the school differently.
Wheaton is the type of school they need from the merit POV - you exceed the other students - that’s how you get paid (for merit in general) vs. a Conn College or others that are stronger academically. You’ll still get paid because they need butts in seat and people en masse don’t want to spend $90K tuition…but they don’t need to spend what a Wheaton does because their student caliber, brand, and endowment are much larger.
That’s why schools like Allegheny, Kalamazoo, Wheaton are home runs for a student with these desires (budget) whereas a Connecticut, Brandeis, Occidentals are all risky…possible but risky.
You need a school like Wheaton on the list to ensure you hit (and in that case, crush) the budget.
4 Likes
Great write-up ! However, not convinced the U Denver is a good match. U Vermont is a match, but housing may still be an issue. Burlington, Vermont is a wonderful small city. Very liberal.
Yes, we drove to the Brandeis campus and left. My point was that D started out thinking that campus appearance was important, but realized she was far more interested in people.
Not to get too off topic to the OP, but my son was adamant he needed to attend a college with a lovely campus. He ended up at the decidedly unlovely Binghamton. He had a fantastic experience there and didn’t care that it wasn’t beautiful.
UVM is liberal, but not in a quirky way, IMO. Lovely small city. I don’t think U Denver is quirky at all, but your D can consider the importance of factors such as quirkiness and loveliness. I think Clark is a good option in many ways. Is there a reason why Lewis and Clark isn’t mentioned? Seems it would be a good bet.
2 Likes
Answer is here:
They don’t want a school in Portland proper - Hence no L&C. It was brought up early.
My concern, right or wrong with Clark, is drastic cuts and they will be focused in certain subjects, not those of OPs interests that I can tell. Article at top of thread.
This is a huge amount of helpful information, thank you! The consensus here seems to be that UNH would not be a good fit for my D, so I think that one is off the table. Also, she connects well with theater kids so Muhlenberg might work, but she would have to get a feel for if theater dominates the culture there and if that would be a plus or minus for her.
I can definitely see how campus appearance might end up being deprioritized once acceptances roll in and choices tradeoffs become clear. That makes sense.