U Vermont has housing scarcity issues? Ugh, that makes me nervous.
Just to give you an idea, at Smith, say, per the latest NCES College Navigator data, out of 622 graduating primary majors, 11 were performing arts–4 Music, 3 Dance, 4 Theater. Obviously this can vary up and down, there can be secondary majors in these areas, Smith has minors in all three areas, and so on. But this is handy data to use for comparative purposes.
OK, then Muhlenberg had 529 total graduating primary majors, out of which 119 were performing arts, 9 Music, 17 Dance, and 93 Theater.
That’s a lot more than Smith!
Of course, 119 of 529 is only about 22.5%. But it again doesn’t include secondary majors or minors (Muhlenberg has minors for Dance and Music, but not Theater).
Does this mean performing arts kids “dominate” Muhlenberg? That depends what that means to you. But by way of analogy, the number of kids with a primary major in performing arts at Muhlenberg is similar to the number of kids who do varsity athletics at a lot of LACs (although at some LACs it can be even higher). And again more kids at these LACs will be involved in athletics in other ways.
And some people do feel like some LACs can be rather sporty for their tastes. So it is a valid question.
But also maybe the answer is that would actually be great for her, for performing arts to be as big at her college as varsity sports are at many other colleges.
Interesting question for sure.
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I don’t think performing arts “dominates” at Muhlenberg. Just that skipping a party because you have an orchestra rehearsal…or spending Sunday afternoon at the Barnes in Philadelphia instead of hanging in the dorm for an online poker competition are perfectly acceptable (and you’ll have friends who want to join you) ways of spending your leisure time.
There are subcultures at every college. The arts enthusiasts are one of those subcultures at Muhlenberg, which makes it a fun place for kids who may not be arty themselves…but just don’t want a campus dedicated to sports and frats.
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You and your daughter may be aiming too low, although that depends upon your priorities.
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academically 100% - but OP noted this in post one:
Finances: We’re a full-pay family looking for merit aid, and our budget for direct costs is about $60,000.
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Hi All, just wanted to provide an update. D27 scored 1580 on SAT.
Our budget has gone up a little, let’s say $65k direct costs.
Current schools of interest:
Willamette University, University of Puget Sound, Whitman College, Bryn Mawr, Smith, Mount Holyoke, Clark, Occidental, Scripps, Macalester, St. Olaf.
Will visit the MN and CA colleges next school year. Other suggestions were appealing but don’t think we’ll be able to visit others. (So sorry not to get to Conn College!)
She knows nothing about William & Mary - just realized it could potentially be in budget - so will have her research, read posts linked above by LionsTigersandBears, etc. Won’t surprise me if W&M jumps onto her list based on past feedback in this thread.
That is where things stand!
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Is the commonality here - near things? Like not isolated?
- On all these - do the NPC - they might tell you!!
When I look at these and you want to spend $65K, I think:
Willamette is in the low 70s today - and has merit starting at $28K. They don’t have a CDS and I can’t find aid data - but I can’t imagine they find too many paying $70K plus, so I’m guessing your daughter will be in good shape. Some think - they won’t even accept someone like your daughter because they know she is flying high to a top top school - but I’m not buying that. So this isn’t assured to hit but would be highly surprised if it didn’t. btw - i run the NPC with full pay - $35K in merit.
U Puget Sound is about $10K more - but honestly, they have to compete with Willamette - so not seeing how they could get that. And they go up to $45K in merit. Their average scholarship and this is 23/24 - was over $28K. Maybe slightly less than Wilamette but I think you are ok here. And on the UPS NPC - before asking about any finances - it says you’ll get $42K for the 4.0 (didn’t even ask the SAT).
You can do the same with all these schools.
So Willamette - yes
UPS - yes
Whitman - I didn’t run - but I’d say yes.
Bryn Mawr - run the NPC (I didn’t ) but merit up to $45K. It’s first year says the average is $5438. The full school says over $50K but they say up to $45K. One is a typo. I haven’t seen huge huge merit - but run the NPC
I think - with all these - you get in.
Willamette, UPS, Clark, and St. Olaf will crush the budget.
I haven’t done further research but BM, Smith, Mt. Holyoke, Mac - may. Scripps I’d eliminate - Scripps - gives merit to few - and at $24K, you’re still over your #. They say they go up to $30K - so it’s going to be pushing or over by the time you go. Personally, I wouldn’t waste my time as they’re over $90K today.
If you want an all female school that will crush, it’s Agnes Scott.
I put others on your other thread.
But run the NPCs - they’ll likely estimate merit aid. To avoid doing the entire thing, when it asks SAI just put in 200000 - this way you get no aid given and if they give you a #, it wil be merit based.
I hope you’re right! I think she will have some great options.
I mean, they’re showing it.
Here’s the thing - these kids are getting money. Need, merit, etc. There are SO MANY schools that will be below $65K, $60K - even $50K.
Not LACs - but another poster just posted that their kid got a full ride at Ole Miss, free tuition and a year of housing at Bama and I think free tuition and a few years at Houston. They didn’t have your stats.
You could definitely go for under $25K.
But the schools you are looking at - they don’t have full pay families. Families aren’t going to pony up $80, $90K a year for names that are not top tier.
These are businesses - and they are competing for $$. Puget Sound acknowledges over 90% get money. You know who likely doesn’t - the 2.5, with 1000 SAT that can afford full tuition.
Her list is fine because the four for sure will crush. Run the NPCs on the others. I personally would replace Scripps.
Here’s the other thing - go and visit schools - to make sure they are right for you.
But your daughter has zero issue and we could add 50+ more that would easily fit.
The buyer is in control at these 2nd/3rd tier colleges.
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I have to say that I love the way your family has gone about its college search process. I missed your thread when it was originally super active, but have caught up.
Since you’ll be visiting Minnesota, your D may want to check out Gustavus Adolphus. Here’s a map that goes from Macalester to St. Olaf to Gustavus Adolphus and then back to the Minneapolis airport to show the distance/time to do the route.
To read more about Gustavus, check out posts #93 & 94 from the thread on schools with admit rates of 60-100% that people like and this post in the One(s) that Got Away thread. I definitely think it’s got the collaborative and kind student body, though I don’t know how quirky/nerdy it is in relation to your other options (I have no firsthand intel). And since the Niche student descriptors have had some traction on this thread, the top three for Gustavus are:
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Invested students with varied interests (48%)
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Full of ideas and motivated (16%)
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Friendly, driven and know how and when to have fun (11%)
But @fiftyfifty1 does have firsthand experience and can hopefully address that aspect of the quest.
Also, did your D ever take the PSAT? With a very strong pre-ACT and a very strong SAT, it seems like she’d be likely to become a National Merit Semi-Finalist (and then Finalist) if she did. As an extra perk, Gustavus gives free tuition to National Merit Finalists.
Just because you can’t visit before applying doesn’t mean she shouldn’t apply to Conn College if she’s interested. She could see what kind of merit aid they offer her (let them woo her!) and then go out there for a visit if it’s still of interest.
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I’m a definite aficionado of quirky and one of my youngest friends is a Pitzer grad who fits the def. I’d always assumed Scripps was the all-women’s equivalent of Pitzer.
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Given your list of colleges and your daughter’s academic interests, I just want to call your attention to Smith’s Semester-in-Washington program, which is available in first semester of either junior or senior year and is run by a Smith faculty member, who helps students find internships and complete a major research project. Students complete 2 academic courses while they are in DC. This program is a full 6 months in DC, June-December. See the link below and then scroll down until you get to “Jean Pickering . . .”
Note that what is called Poli-Sci at other colleges is called Government at Smith.
Also . . .
- Check out the Chuck Green Civic Engagement Fellowship at Macalester for a unique learning experience:
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I like both the Campaign Semester and the Kahane UN Program at Occidental.
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Scripps offers a semester in Washington, administered by Claremont McKenna faculty. Called CMC Washington, it allows juniors and 2nd semester sophomores of all majors to live, work, and study in DC. Did you know that Scripps students can take an unlimited number of courses each semester at the other Claremont colleges and can even choose a major offered by one of the other 4 colleges?
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Thanks for the new posts! I will hop on and give an update on D’s college search early next week.
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Update:
D27 has a 4.0 uw GPA, 1580 SAT, National Merit Selection Index of 218. This selection index is on the bubble in our state but NMF is possible.
Completed AP exams: Calc AB and BC (both 5), Modern World (5), Seminar (4), US History (5), CompGov (5), Research (5), Chem (5), Eng. Lang (5).
Senior Year AP courses: Stats, English Lit, U.S. Gov, and African American History.
Extracurriculars: Mock Trial incl. leadership, Debate, Varsity Cross Country & Track, light involvement in theater, summer jobs, past summer volunteer at library. This summer, she is participating in a couple different week-long goverment/law-related experiences, plus will volunteer on a local election campaign and with a legal aid clinic.
Hobbies: hanging with friends, knitting, baking, board games, D&D, bird enthusiast
Academic interests: Political Science/Government, History. She is more certain about pursuing law school and is interested in low-paying legal careers such as public defense.
Finances: We’re still a full-pay family looking for merit aid, the budget has eked up a bit (to match tuition increases). Let’s say the pot available for direct costs is about $300,000. That correlates to first year direct costs in the upper $60s plus $5k annual increases.
Definitely will apply: University of Puget Sound, Whitman College, Bryn Mawr, Smith, Mount Holyoke, Willamette (if we ask her to).
MN fall visit before apps are due: Macalester, St. Olaf, Gustavus Adolphus (late addition, thanks AustenNut!)
Will research from home, likely apply to most or all, visit a top contender in spring if needed: Occidental, Scripps, William & Mary, Wheaton (MA).
We are still open to colorful intel, particularly for the schools not already on the ‘definitely’ list. Thanks to those who have already provided great anecdotes about some of these schools.
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Congrats to your D for a great SAT score.
You received many good responses from more experienced posters. I may have missed it, but were Swathmore or Haverford mentioned? They are SLAC and they are 2 of the 3 tri-consortium schools. Bryn Mawr (all girls) is the 3rd. I think UPenn also allows cross registration. These 3 schools attract academically serious and quirky students. Also,
“Starting in the fall of 2027, Swarthmore College will cover at least the cost of tuition for students whose families have a household income of $200,000 or less and have typical assets.”
It sounds like your family’s income may be more than $200k possibly so this probably does not help.
Lehigh was mentioned in previous posts. Its culture isn’t quirky, but they do offer merit aid. Our eldest received full tuition for 4 years. His ACT and GPA were high etc. A good majority of the student body is from NY, NJ, PA area. It’s a bit more Greek system oriented, but not all students participate. Our S did not. The undergrad population is larger than most NE schools. It’s about 5000 undergrads.
I forgot to include it in my previous post. Lehigh is one few schools that list the named merit scholarships. In my experience, many schools do not list them on their websites.