Selective Colleges Admitting Students with Below 3.75 GPA

tokenadult · September 18, 2008, 11:44am

At this time of year, a lot of seniors get mid-quarter grades and start worrying about their grade point averages in their high school courses. I see a LOT of threads on this College Admissions Forum and on the Parents Forum about what GPA ruins an applicant’s chances at a selective college. I did an online search for information about twenty-five research universities, the twenty-five that this year have been identified by U.S. News as the “best value” national research universities. If you follow the College Board College QuickFinder links I’ve provided below, you could search up information about other colleges. The short answer is that there are a lot of good colleges that explicitly report that they admit dozens of students with grade averages below 3.75, and there are other colleges that hide the ball by not reporting what grade average ranges there are in their enrolled classes. Harvard explicitly says it does NOT have a minimum grade point average requirement (no doubt because high schools vary in their grading standards, and high school students vary in what kind of courses they take in high school). It’s a good idea to get good grades wherever you are applying, but you shouldn’t get sick with worry if your formerly perfect grade average finally starts to drop below 4.0 (or 100 percent) in senior year.

Here’s a first quick-and-dirty look at the data reported by the colleges for the Common Data Set Initiative. Further links, follow-up questions about what this means, discussion, and quotations from college websites about grades of applicants are most welcome. Enjoy. Good luck in your applications.

HARVARD UNIVERSITY

[College</a> Search - Harvard College - At a Glance](<a href=“College Search - BigFuture | College Board”>College Search - BigFuture | College Board)

95% in top 10th of graduating class, 100% in top quarter of graduating class

The Harvard viewbook

<a href=“http://www.admissions.college.harvard.edu/utilities/electronic_resources/viewbook/Rollo0809_Q&A.pdf[/url]”>http://www.admissions.college.harvard.edu/utilities/electronic_resources/viewbook/Rollo0809_Q&A.pdf</a>

has a Frequently Asked Question response about this issue:

PRINCETON UNIVERSITY

[College</a> Search - Princeton University - At a Glance](<a href=“College Search - BigFuture | College Board”>College Search - BigFuture | College Board)

<pre><code>* 96% in top 10th of graduating class

99% in top quarter of graduating class
100% in top half of graduating class
82% had h.s. GPA of 3.75 and higher
11% had h.s. GPA between 3.5 and 3.74
4% had h.s. GPA between 3.25 and 3.49
3% had h.s. GPA between 3.0 and 3.24
</code></pre>

Princeton’s admissions FAQ

[Princeton</a> University | Secondary School Credentials](<a href=“http://www.princeton.edu/admission/applyingforadmission/faq/secondary_school_credenti_1/#comp000046cc511c0000000ea518e5]Princeton”>http://www.princeton.edu/admission/applyingforadmission/faq/secondary_school_credenti_1/#comp000046cc511c0000000ea518e5)

says

YALE UNIVERSITY

[College</a> Search - Yale University - At a Glance](<a href=“College Search - BigFuture | College Board”>College Search - BigFuture | College Board)

97% in top 10th of graduating class

Yale’s FAQ about applying to Yale College

[Applying</a> to Yale College | Frequently Asked Questions | Office of Undergraduate Admissions](<a href=“http://www.yale.edu/admit/faq/applying.html]Applying”>http://www.yale.edu/admit/faq/applying.html)

says

MASSACHUSETTS INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY

[College</a> Search - Massachusetts Institute of Technology - MIT - At a Glance](<a href=“College Search - BigFuture | College Board”>College Search - BigFuture | College Board)

<pre><code>* 97% in top 10th of graduating class

100% in top quarter of graduating class
100% in top half of graduating class
</code></pre>

MIT’s admissions FAQ

[MIT</a> Admissions: Recommended High School Preparation](<a href=“http://www.mitadmissions.org/topics/before/recommended_high_school_preparation/index.shtml]MIT”>http://www.mitadmissions.org/topics/before/recommended_high_school_preparation/index.shtml)

says

STANFORD UNIVERSITY

[College</a> Search - Stanford University - THE FARM - At a Glance](<a href=“College Search - BigFuture | College Board”>College Search - BigFuture | College Board)

<pre><code>* 91% in top 10th of graduating class

98% in top quarter of graduating class
100% in top half of graduating class
93% had h.s. GPA of 3.75 and higher
6% had h.s. GPA between 3.5 and 3.74
1% had h.s. GPA between 3.25 and 3.49
</code></pre>

CALIFORNIA INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY

[College</a> Search - California Institute of Technology - CALTECH - At a Glance](<a href=“College Search - BigFuture | College Board”>College Search - BigFuture | College Board)

<h1>99% in top 10th of graduating class</h1>

<h1>100% in top quarter of graduating class</h1>

DARTMOUTH COLLEGE

[College</a> Search - Dartmouth College - At a Glance](<a href=“College Search - BigFuture | College Board”>College Search - BigFuture | College Board)

<pre><code>* 91% in top 10th of graduating class

62% had h.s. GPA of 3.75 and higher
18% had h.s. GPA between 3.5 and 3.74
10% had h.s. GPA between 3.25 and 3.49
6% had h.s. GPA between 3.0 and 3.24
2% had h.s. GPA between 2.5 and 2.99
1% had h.s. GPA between 2.0 and 2.49
1% had h.s. GPA between 1.0 and 1.99
</code></pre>

COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY

[College</a> Search - Columbia University - Columbia - At a Glance](<a href=“College Search - BigFuture | College Board”>College Search - BigFuture | College Board)

(No information on College Board site.)

Columbia’s admission FAQ

[Applications</a> & Admission Process | Columbia University Office of Undergraduate Admissions](<a href=“http://www.studentaffairs.columbia.edu/admissions/faq/admissions.php#1]Applications”>http://www.studentaffairs.columbia.edu/admissions/faq/admissions.php#1)

says

Columbia’s admission statistics

[Admission</a> Statistics | Columbia University Office of Undergraduate Admissions](<a href=“http://www.studentaffairs.columbia.edu/admissions/applications/stats.php]Admission”>http://www.studentaffairs.columbia.edu/admissions/applications/stats.php)

report statistics for ADMITTED students as of May, and thus overstate requirements needed to be part of the enrolled class in the fall. The statistics say

</code></pre>

UNIVERSITY OF NORTH CAROLINA–CHAPEL HILL

[College</a> Search - University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill - UNC - At a Glance](<a href=“College Search - BigFuture | College Board”>College Search - BigFuture | College Board)

<pre><code>* 76% in top 10th of graduating class

95% in top quarter of graduating class
99% in top half of graduating class
93% had h.s. GPA of 3.75 and higher
4% had h.s. GPA between 3.5 and 3.74
1% had h.s. GPA between 3.25 and 3.49
1% had h.s. GPA between 3.0 and 3.24
1% had h.s. GPA between 2.5 and 2.99
</code></pre>

RICE UNIVERSITY

[College</a> Search - Rice University - Rice - At a Glance](<a href=“College Search - BigFuture | College Board”>College Search - BigFuture | College Board)

<pre><code>* 83% in top 10th of graduating class

95% in top quarter of graduating class
99% in top half of graduating class
</code></pre>

UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA

[College</a> Search - University of Pennsylvania - Penn - At a Glance](<a href=“College Search - BigFuture | College Board”>College Search - BigFuture | College Board)

<pre><code>* 96% in top 10th of graduating class

99% in top quarter of graduating class
100% in top half of graduating class
65% had h.s. GPA of 3.75 and higher
16% had h.s. GPA between 3.5 and 3.74
11% had h.s. GPA between 3.25 and 3.49
5% had h.s. GPA between 3.0 and 3.24
3% had h.s. GPA between 2.5 and 2.99
</code></pre>

DUKE UNIVERSITY

[College</a> Search - Duke University - Duke - At a Glance](<a href=“College Search - BigFuture | College Board”>College Search - BigFuture | College Board)

<pre><code>* 90% in top 10th of graduating class

97% in top quarter of graduating class
100% in top half of graduating class
</code></pre>

UNIVERSITY OF CHICAGO

[College</a> Search - University of Chicago - Chicago - At a Glance](<a href=“College Search - BigFuture | College Board”>College Search - BigFuture | College Board)

<pre><code>* 83% in top 10th of graduating class

98% in top quarter of graduating class
100% in top half of graduating class
89% had h.s. GPA of 3.75 and higher
6% had h.s. GPA between 3.5 and 3.74
2% had h.s. GPA between 3.25 and 3.49
1% had h.s. GPA between 3.0 and 3.24
2% had h.s. GPA between 2.5 and 2.99
</code></pre>

VANDERBILT UNIVERSITY

[College</a> Search - Vanderbilt University - Vandy - At a Glance](<a href=“College Search - BigFuture | College Board”>College Search - BigFuture | College Board)

<pre><code>* 80% in top 10th of graduating class

95% in top quarter of graduating class
99% in top half of graduating class
49% had h.s. GPA of 3.75 and higher
24% had h.s. GPA between 3.5 and 3.74
16% had h.s. GPA between 3.25 and 3.49
7% had h.s. GPA between 3.0 and 3.24
3% had h.s. GPA between 2.5 and 2.99
1% had h.s. GPA between 2.0 and 2.49
</code></pre>

SUNY COLLEGE OF ENV. SCI. & FORESTRY

[College</a> Search - State University of New York College of Environmental Science and Forestry - ESF - At a Glance](<a href=“College Search - BigFuture | College Board”>College Search - BigFuture | College Board)

<pre><code>* 24% in top 10th of graduating class

55% in top quarter of graduating class
91% in top half of graduating class
</code></pre>

UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA

[College</a> Search - University of Virginia - UVA - At a Glance](<a href=“College Search - BigFuture | College Board”>College Search - BigFuture | College Board)

<pre><code>* 87% in top 10th of graduating class

96% in top quarter of graduating class
99% in top half of graduating class
85% had h.s. GPA of 3.75 and higher
9% had h.s. GPA between 3.5 and 3.74
3% had h.s. GPA between 3.25 and 3.49
2% had h.s. GPA between 3.0 and 3.24
1% had h.s. GPA between 2.5 and 2.99
</code></pre>

BROWN UNIVERSITY

[College</a> Search - Brown University - Brown - At a Glance](<a href=“College Search - BigFuture | College Board”>College Search - BigFuture | College Board)

<pre><code>* 92% in top 10th of graduating class

99% in top quarter of graduating class
100% in top half of graduating class
</code></pre>

[quote=Brown University admission office]


 </p>

<pre><code>              Applied      Accepted    % Accepted    Enrolled
</code></pre>

<p>Valedictorian      1,151          367        32%           154 
Salutatorian         522          142        27%            75 
Total Top Tenth    6,254        1,129        18%           590 
2nd Tenth & below  1,815           62         3%            44 
from schools      12,564        1,635        13%           925 
that do not 
provide class rank </p>

<p>

[Brown</a> Admission: Facts & Figures](<a href=“Undergraduate Admission | Brown University”>Undergraduate Admission | Brown University)

EMORY UNIVERSITY

[College</a> Search - Emory University - At a Glance](<a href=“College Search - BigFuture | College Board”>College Search - BigFuture | College Board)

<pre><code>* 85% in top 10th of graduating class

95% in top quarter of graduating class
100% in top half of graduating class
51% had h.s. GPA of 3.75 and higher
31% had h.s. GPA between 3.5 and 3.74
14% had h.s. GPA between 3.25 and 3.49
3% had h.s. GPA between 3.0 and 3.24
1% had h.s. GPA between 2.5 and 2.99
</code></pre>

See also

<a href=“http://www.emory.edu/PROVOST/IPR/documents/factbookprofile/CDS2007_2008.pdf[/url]”>http://www.emory.edu/PROVOST/IPR/documents/factbookprofile/CDS2007_2008.pdf</a>

for the same figures with the percentages rounded off a little more exactly.

JOHNS HOPKINS UNIVERSITY

[College</a> Search - Johns Hopkins University - Hopkins - At a Glance](<a href=“College Search - BigFuture | College Board”>College Search - BigFuture | College Board)

<pre><code>* 82% in top 10th of graduating class

97% in top quarter of graduating class
100% in top half of graduating class
50% had h.s. GPA of 3.75 and higher
27% had h.s. GPA between 3.5 and 3.74
17% had h.s. GPA between 3.25 and 3.49
4% had h.s. GPA between 3.0 and 3.24
2% had h.s. GPA between 2.5 and 2.99
</code></pre>

NORTHWESTERN UNIVERSITY

[College</a> Search - Northwestern University - NU - At a Glance](<a href=“College Search - BigFuture | College Board”>College Search - BigFuture | College Board)

<pre><code>* 85% in top 10th of graduating class

97% in top quarter of graduating class
99% in top half of graduating class
</code></pre>

UNIVERSITY OF NOTRE DAME

[College</a> Search - University of Notre Dame - Notre Dame - At a Glance](<a href=“College Search - BigFuture | College Board”>College Search - BigFuture | College Board)

<pre><code>* 87% in top 10th of graduating class

97% in top quarter of graduating class
100% in top half of graduating class
</code></pre>

WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY IN ST. LOUIS

[College</a> Search - Washington University in St. Louis - Washington U. - At a Glance](<a href=“College Search - BigFuture | College Board”>College Search - BigFuture | College Board)

(No information on College Board site.)

NORTH CAROLINA STATE UNIVERSITY–RALEIGH

[College</a> Search - North Carolina State University - NC State - At a Glance](<a href=“http://collegesearch.collegeboard.com/search/CollegeDetail.jsp?collegeId=614]College”>College Search - BigFuture | College Board)

<pre><code>* 34% in top 10th of graduating class

78% in top quarter of graduating class
98% in top half of graduating class
85% had h.s. GPA of 3.75 and higher
10% had h.s. GPA between 3.5 and 3.74
3% had h.s. GPA between 3.25 and 3.49
1% had h.s. GPA between 3.0 and 3.24
1% had h.s. GPA between 2.5 and 2.99
</code></pre>

CORNELL UNIVERSITY

[College</a> Search - Cornell University - At a Glance](<a href=“College Search - BigFuture | College Board”>College Search - BigFuture | College Board)

<pre><code>* 87% in top 10th of graduating class

98% in top quarter of graduating class
100% in top half of graduating class
</code></pre>

CASE WESTERN RESERVE UNIVERSITY

[College</a> Search - Case Western Reserve University - Case - At a Glance](<a href=“College Search - BigFuture | College Board”>College Search - BigFuture | College Board)

<pre><code>* 66% in top 10th of graduating class

92% in top quarter of graduating class
99% in top half of graduating class
</code></pre>

britbrat1961 · September 18, 2008, 11:59am

Great data, but to my point, the class ranking is also very important to these colleges and if your s or d goes to a small selective school where many make great grades, it is tough. At my son’s school, there are 220 seniors this year. His class ranking is #13 with a 4.5 weighted GPA, 8 AP’s and an unweighted GPA of 3.94. You have to be #22 or above to be in the top 10% of the class. Where do you think the students with a 3.75 GPA rate in a school with such a small senior class?

tokenadult · September 18, 2008, 12:32pm

That’s a good follow-up question, to which I will ask a follow-up question of my own. What has been the experience in the last few years of the students of similar GPAs or rank at the high school your son attends? What kind of colleges did those young people get into?

britbrat1961 · September 18, 2008, 12:56pm

As I stated in another post, the school has been around for 21 years, rated the 5th highest academically in OC, CA and until last year, not 1 student had been accepted to Stanford. All of a sudden, last year, 6 were accepted.

The UC system has its own calculation for acceptance, but they also have a process whereby the top 4% of students in the state can be guaranteed admission to one of the UC schools, simply from their GPA and class ranking. 
The key issue here…top 4%! At my son’s school, only the top 8 students were offered admission due to only having 220 seniors.

Here is a link for the actual matriculation facts for last year that is off the schools website.

<a href=“http://www.ocsarts.net/files/matriculation2008.pdf[/url]”>http://www.ocsarts.net/files/matriculation2008.pdf</a>

tokenadult · November 28, 2008, 1:04pm

I’m reviving this thread because this is still a recurrent question on the forum.

hmom5 · November 28, 2008, 2:19pm

When you factor in that 40% of each class is comprised of recruited athletes, URMs and legacies (then add low income/first generation/geog diversity), you have to wonder what percent who don’t fit into one of those groups has below the 3.75.

JW_Muller · November 28, 2008, 6:02pm

Very nice data, Tokenadult. I note that the University of Chicago, in comparison to Stanford and Duke, dips lower into the GPA, but has 25-75% CR SAT’s higher than Stanford and Duke.

UNIVERSITY OF CHICAGO

83% in top 10th of graduating class
89% had h.s. GPA of 3.75 and higher
6% had h.s. GPA between 3.5 and 3.74
SAT CR 25-75%: 670-770

STANFORD UNIVERSITY

91% in top 10th of graduating class
93% had h.s. GPA of 3.75 and higher
6% had h.s. GPA between 3.5 and 3.74
SAT CR 25-75%: 660-760

DUKE UNIVERSITY

90% in top 10th of graduating class
SAT CR 25-75%: 650-760

[College</a> Navigator - Compare Institutions](<a href=“College Navigator - Compare Institutions”>College Navigator - Compare Institutions)

Does this make University of Chicago an answer to my question, <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-admissions/603402-sat-s-gpa-where-apply-2.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-admissions/603402-sat-s-gpa-where-apply-2.html</a>

If University of Chicago is demonstrating a relative preference for SAT’s over GPA’s, are there other selective colleges similarly inclined?

CountingDown · November 28, 2008, 6:12pm

JW Muller,
Chicago REALLY cares about the courses one takes, and that is where a slightly lower GPA but extremely tough schedules may come into play.

My S was NOT top 10% and a 3.76 UW but got into both MIT and Chicago EA. It can happen! No doubt his tough schedule (9 APs and 13 post-AP courses) told schools he was unafraid of challenges or Bs.

JW_Muller · November 28, 2008, 6:27pm

I don’t about Chicago it doesn’t appear to ad up. Stanford accepts 10%, Duke 23% and Chicago 38%. Unless Chicago’s applicant pool is freakishly different, I don’t see how they get higher SAT’s in any category than Stanford and Duke without machinations.

Bay · November 28, 2008, 6:29pm

I have found OP’s data difficult to apply in practical terms, because a student’s GPA can be calculated so many different ways. Some universities give extra weight to honors classes and AP classes, and no weight to other classes like P.E., drama, student government, etc. Also, our high school does not officially rank, so the ranking data is not helpful. Further, the competitiveness of the high school has got to factor into consideration when evaluating applicants: a 3.75 GPA/top quarter rank with 6 AP courses at an extremely competitive school has got to trump a 3.9/top 10% rank with no honors or AP courses at a low-performing public high school, for example.

CountingDown · November 28, 2008, 6:32pm

My opinion: self-selection. Chicago has a certain perspective (or at least they have in the past; it is trying to change that to a certain degree) that is very attractive to a subset of students. Students who particularly like Chicago are not likely to care for Duke or Stanford. Certainly was the case at our house.

See this thread for JHS’s cogent discussion of Chicago’s acceptance rate.
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-chicago/603533-i-could-not-figure-out-could-you.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-chicago/603533-i-could-not-figure-out-could-you.html</a>

sybbie719 · November 28, 2008, 6:40pm

I agree that GPAs and grading stuctures vary from school to school and all 3.75 gpas are not created equally.

OP must also take into consideration that some students admitted with slightly lower gpas are admitted through various opportunity programs for students who would be considered educationally and economically disadvantaged (for example HEOP in NYS privates that participate, EOP for SUNY publics, SEEK & College Discovery at the CUNY level, C-STEP programs at schools specifically seeking students for science and technology programs, TRIO programs, etc.) and these programs vary from state to state.

The “cut off” gpa and SAT scores also vary from program to program and from state to state. While there may be a little wiggle room for gpa and sat scores most programs do have federal income guidelines.

tokenadult · November 28, 2008, 7:22pm

Yes, this is the main point of this thread. On the one hand, the senior who is applying this year about to get his first grade of B shouldn’t be freaking out. And on the other hand, the junior who decides to only take non-AP courses to preserve a perfect 4.0 may be turning himself into a chump. Colleges can look beyond the grade average to what courses a particular student was taking at a particular high school.

iwannagotobrown · November 30, 2008, 10:11pm

Im a junior and i might get a c in one of my classes…help me

molliegym · November 30, 2008, 10:43pm

Yes, people have gotten in to good colleges with a C. People have probably even gotten in to Brown with a C.

If you think you might get a C, however, do try to bring it up. Talk to the teacher, if you can. Study harder (don’t cram for the tests!). Do the homework. Take notes and pay attention in class.

dkwunw · November 30, 2008, 10:51pm

Yes for sure.

NKBaseballbum18 · November 30, 2008, 10:54pm

I know someone who failed 2 classes as a freshman and got accepted into Princeton, no worries

ironmetal250 · November 30, 2008, 11:02pm

…
This thread is bad and you should feel bad.

ruskie · November 30, 2008, 11:16pm

of course… grades and sat’s aren’t everything

starbucks08 · November 30, 2008, 11:22pm

i know plenty of people with C’s and even a D get into HYPS

Selective Colleges Admitting Students with Below 3.75 GPA

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