<p>My son will soon turn 18 and I am aware that they are expected to register for with the Selective Service. I’m interested in any other parents’ experience with this and particularly in steps to register initially as a Conscientious Objector. He has grown up in a faith tradition and I know the minister and a close family friend who was a CO in WWII (definitely not easy then) would write letters of support. Most parents I’ve mentioned it to so far say “Oh, don’t worry, there’s no draft.” I know times can change. I’m actually not opposed to the idea of universal service (for both genders), I come from a family where both men and women have served, and I do support our troops, but–I’m opposed, as my son is, to being required to take up arms against other humans. I’d love to know how other families have taken this step.</p>
<p>Please excuse this naive question from an international student: what is Selective Service?</p>
<p>Cevonia, young men (only men) in the US are required to register for the military draft (selective service) within 30 days of their 18th birthday. The penalties for not doing so are huge ($250,000 and jail time, and civil penalties such as loss of student loans, etc.).</p>
<p>MMaah, I looked into this when my son registered. He and I ultimately decided that there would be plenty of time for establishing CO status if he was actually at risk of being drafted.</p>
<p>Thank you dmd77. In my country, all young men have to serve national service, but since the probability of Switzerland ever going to war is quite low it is considered more of a rite of passage than actual military service. It is also increasingly considered as a waste of time and resources - so much so that now, as I understand it, we can serve it during our summer holidays, or simply declare that we are mentally unfit for service (though this incurs an income tax penalty). </p>
<p>What grounds are accepted for establishing CO status? I assume religious belief is one of them, are there any others?</p>
<p>I just did a little research- it appears that you can’t apply as a concious objector *when * you register for, but only when you are selected by a draft.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.uua.org/uuawo/issues/respond/military.html[/url]”>http://www.uua.org/uuawo/issues/respond/military.html</a></p>
<p>THis is a very timely question. The PTA this week is going to be holding a forum on keeping military recruiters out of the school, and this will be good information to have if students want to proactively stay out of the military, besides enlistment when they graduate.
I have mixed feelings about it. I feel like at our school and in the media they demonize the recruiters, and going in the military is totally denied as a choice, even an informed choice.
I know there are a lot of problems with it.
One is that I beleive women should be required to register as well, even though I have two daughters- I just don’t think that it should only be up to the boys to fulfill their obligation by registering.
Two is even though politicians have made lots of noise about expanding required service and possibly making a choice available to include groups like Freedom corps, they have put it on the back burner. I firmly believe that we need everyone to enroll in some sort of community service whether it be working in low income schools, joining the military or even building trails, right now I see people with no idea what they will do after school or excited about the chance to go to college and make a lot of money .
I think we would have more involved leaders and community if everyone was required to do this.
I also have a problem with putting all blame on recruiters, the young man I know that enlisted in Marines after spending 3 years teaching high school in Micronesia was a recruiter for a while in Seattle. He didn’t chose that job, he was assigned his position. It was so not like him, that he went as far as to volunteer to go to Iraq instead and recently returned from his tour there ( where he was injured enough that , they wouldn’t send him back- he is choosing to return when he is healthy enough)
While I think the commander in chief is a ( well we wont go there , there may be children listening), I also think the military can be considered if it is an informed decision, not one that is colored by fancy video games and shiny uniforms.
My brother recently retired from air force, and while I wouldn’t have expected it. It changed his life. He didn’t go to college after high school, he was working at a gas station, but realized that if he wanted to get away from that he would need help. He went into the service, they paid for his college and he is retired working as an electrical engineer and making a very good living.</p>
<p>This site will give you all the information you require: (Central Committee on Conscientious Objection)</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.objector.org/[/url]”>http://www.objector.org/</a></p>
<p>Our Friends Meeting has a number of former military folks who have been going into schools to counsel students on c.o. status.</p>
<p>While the Friends have a very long and very honorable history of C-objection, it should be noted that the government does not look kindly upon people who have NO history, or who are suddenly just objecting to THIS war, or to THIS situation for themselves. In other words, boys should understand that they can’t just suddenly decide they are COs out of the clear blue sky. (I have some experience in this; of approx. 20 students whom I know at the U where I volunteer, precisely NONE were granted CO status).</p>
<p>That’s absolutely true. It must be an objection to all wars on principle, based on a belief system that (according to the Supreme Court decision in Seger vs. U.S. in 1965) is the equivalent of a religious one.</p>
<p>The philosophical theory behind this is that wars are not to adjudged on the basis of ends they seek to accomplish, but rather on the means used to accomplish them. Now I happen to think that one could “conscientiously object” to particular ends being sought (regardless of means), and that a civilized society would make room for such objections, but no government in the world currently sees it that way.</p>
<p>My son just registered in August, 2004. If there is a draft, we’ll think about what to do…</p>
<p>I registered for the draft shortly after I turned 18. I don’t believe any of our current conflicts will necessitate a draft, regardless of what some of you have read on moveon.org. Personally, I wouldn’t be a huge fan of being drafted and sent to Iraq…BUT, in the event that, say, North Korea lobbed a couple nukes in our direction, I’d be seriously looking into military service. I can understand conscientious objection to a war like the Vietnam War, but what if something along the lines of WW2 arose? That truly was a war of good vs. evil (the whole hitler thing). </p>
<p>I don’t really know how such a draft would affect the whole CC crowd anyway. Wouldn’t the military have some better purpose for these braniacs? For example, my grandfather spent WW2 in London as a cryptographer for the Army. He was among the group that, inter alia, worked on cracking the Enigma Code. Would any of you conscientious objectors object to work like that?</p>
<p>Yeah… I hardly think any educated and intelligent students will be given a rifle and just stuffed into the meatgrinder when they’re better utilized designing weapons behind a desk or something. And there’s the fact that the military is spending a huge amount on developing robotic grunts to take the place of valuable humans.</p>
<p>Cavalier, if they reinstate the draft, they will start having a lottery to decide the order of draft, by date of birth. Then they will start by drafting men whose 20th birthday falls within that year; if they run out of 20-year-olds, they’ll move on to 21 year olds, then 22 year olds, and so on. </p>
<p>Very few 20 year olds have finished college. There will be no student deferments. So basically, there is not going to be a college “brainiac” exception. The military needs infantry and men on the front lines; as far as the behind-the-scenes, brainy stuff … they’ve got career military people to do that stuff. </p>
<p>You can be complacent if you want - but the reality is that none of the branches of the military service are currently able to meet their recruiting quotas; the majority of our troops are now bogged down in Iraq in a situation where violence continues to escalate – and most of those soldiers are now on extended tours of duty or on their second deployments – these are experienced, but “battle-weary” soldiers and over time they need to be replaced with new bodies.</p>
<p>mini, thank you for this information. I shared it with my son.</p>
<p>Well, calmom, I’m just going on what I’ve heard from family members of mine who are “high-up” in the military (captain/colonel or admiral/general). The general consensus among them is that an all-volunteer military is ideal, and that the military will do whatever possible to maintain that. I can’t really comment on your assertion that the military can’t meet its quotas, as I have no data on that topic. Regardless, I’d wager that there is no draft approaching, so I am not nervous. I’m more nervous about real things…like car accidents, cancer, etc. But what do I know? I’m just some teenager. I really don’t think a draft will take place unless something truly terrible happens, but, in that case, I doubt many people would think twice about being drafted or joining the military. Of course, depending on how you view things, “W” is doing everything possible to bring us to the brink of such a terrible event, but who knows…</p>
<p>BTW, I’m trying not to be too political, and in person I’m not too concerned with politics. Many of my friends are left of calmom, and we get along just fine. ;)</p>
<p>There will never be a draft when the Army denies admission to tens of thousands of people per year…</p>
<p>Cavalier – all it takes is some manufactured “crisis” to make the draft happen. The Vietnam war started with a manufactured crisis – the Gulf of Tonkin – don’t take my word for that, just rent the DVD “The Fog of War”. We are in Iraq because of a manufactured crisis – Saddam, WMD’s, etc. </p>
<p>It is true that the people who run the military would prefer an all-volunteer army, if they can have one and make it work – but it will never work in a situation where there is a significant risk of getting killed in an unpopular foreign war. Instead of talking to older, high-level career military people - I would strongly suggest you talk with some of the people who are or have been on the ground – because the bottom line is that the army needs infantry. If they don’t get them through recruiting, they will have to get them through a draft. </p>
<p>This isn’t really a political left or right issue. It’s the reality - if we need X number of troops, we have to either figure out where to get them or do something to reduce our need.</p>
<p>As long as the military is still stopping people from joining, I don’t see a draft any time soon. The military turns away alot of people every year becouse of criminal records, drugs, failing entrance tests, minor medical concerns, etc. so if they really needed more people, they’d take them first.</p>
<p>Chris, your statement is just ignorant. The army turned away people with criminal records or medical problems in WW II and during Vietnam, when the bulk of forces came from the draft – they want healthy, dependable people who will obey orders. When there is a draft - people that are not desireable recruits are classified 4F – in fact, the main way that rich kids dodged the draft in the 60’s was to get some doctor to give them a bogus diagnosis of something like asthma that would disqualify them from service. </p>
<p>Draftees are not happy about it, but most are law abiding citizens who will do what they are told on the battlefield.</p>
<p>I do think that if a draft is instituted, the military will face an even larger number of people who will try to avoid service because of trumped-up medical issues or other disqualifying factors. The “don’t ask/don’t tell” policy is going to give many people an incentive to falsely claim that they are gay – in the 60’s there was a huge social stigma against homosexuality, but now I think people would view it as a big joke. The military won’t accept anyone who is taking ritalin or a number of other medications commonly prescribed for psychological issues or anxiety – and a diagnosis of “ADD” and corresponding prescription is pretty easy to come by. </p>
<p>But that won’t prevent a draft - it will just preserve the social inequities in which the rich and sophisticated find ways to avoid service, leaving the ranks to be filled by those who are less aware of possible dodges or less willing to try gaming the system.</p>
<p>But what about people with valuable skills? Technical degrees or knowledge in a language like Arabic. I’d think it would be ridiculous to turn, say, a civil engineer into a frontline grunt when he/she is more useful planting mines or building defenses and such. Or someone fluent in (whatever language needed) who could translate things.</p>
<p>And I thought that there was a 1-semester (or one-year, for seniors) college deferment?</p>
<p>Even if a young man plans to file for conscientious objector status, they still have to register with Selective Service. I just finished writing a letter for a young man who is trying to build a conscientious objector file in the event that a draft is reinstated. According to all our information, the time to start is BEFORE there is a draft. There needs to be documentation that shows this has been a long standing beleif, and not just opposition to the current war. I really can’t beleive our government would ever be crazy enough to try and institue the draft again based on past history, but you never know…they have made other stupid moves so I wouldn’t completely discount it! Having three sons of prime age for the military, it scares the heck out of me.</p>