<p>Re: US service in WWII as % of population – my information comes from “Citizen Soldier” by Stephen Ambrose. I used “conscription” in a sloppy way, since I’m pretty sure Ambrose’s figures include volunteers. I remember the reference since Ambrose was reporting that US soldiers in Europe were bitter that they spent more time in the line than other western allies since the US Army was under-manned. I had never read that before. Yes, total Soviet and western forces were larger than the Germans by 1945, but most of that was Soviet numbers on the eastern front. The Commonwealth and US forces in western Europe were outnumbered by the Germans they were facing, according to Ambrose.</p>
<p>Re: Patton quotes. I’m something of a Patton buff dating back to “Ordeal and Triumph” when I was just a lad. The quotes above are all from Patton’s standard 2 Corps, 7th Army, and 3rd Army stump speech that he gave to soldiers at every opportunity. He picked and chose from his favorites, and sometimes added new material for the occasion, but they quotes are probably all accurate – just taken from different dates. The opening scene from the movie Patton is notable historically just because it is so accurate. Except maybe for the huge American flag behind him…</p>
<p>I know this is Parent’s forum, and I probably shouldn’t post here, but this topic has caught my attention…</p>
<p>I just want to say, whatever decisions the “adults” at Washington makes, it’s youth like me that pays the price. You go to war, we are the ones that die. You destroyed the environment, we are the ones that have to deal with it. My point is, though youth like me have little to no political power, we are the ones that suffer. So please keep that in mind before you support the war, and see how fair does that sound…</p>
<p>I hate everything about war. The very thought that I may be call to take someone else’s life leaves me sleepless at night. The very thought that someday I could be the one blown up in halves have made me only hopeful of better news on CNN when I turn it on. I already have a few family relatives staying extra time in Iraq, and when their poor wives come crying to my mom and me, I can only sit there and hope tomorrow is a better day…</p>
<p>I know freedom isn’t free. I know I’m only able to be here because someone else had paid the price. But I do believe there could have been a lot less sacrifice with more prudence, more political effort before we send someone else’s child into the battlefield. What kind of proof did we act on when we invaded Iraq? I thought we were targeting on terrorists, not on every dictator in the world (there are many)…</p>
<p>I’m thankful for the all-volunteer army. They are truly strong both mentally and physically. I know I’ll never obtain such strength like theirs. It’s also thanks to them, that I can focus on my study, and perhaps repay the society in other ways. The all-volunteer army is also an example of virtue. They trust the politicians to make responsible decisions. They trust in the generation of their parents to protect them anyway they can before deploying them. And I think we’re abusing that virtue.</p>
<p>My friends were being drafted and sent to Viet Nam. The Cuyahoga River and Love Canal and Silent Spring all happened either before I was born or when I was a kid. </p>
<ol>
<li><p>I sympathize with your sentiments, but no need to start slinging blame.</p></li>
<li><p>My generation said exactly the same thing about my parents’ generation. We were wrong, too. </p></li>
<li><p>Stop whining and prepare yourself to do something about something important.</p></li>
</ol>
WashDad’s right - this same statement was made in the generation of the parents of current college-age people. I still remember the commercial with the crying Indian.</p>
<p>All is not lost though. The environment isn’t destroyed. Get out and travel a bit and you’ll see that the vast majority of the environment is doing just fine.</p>
Perhaps you could explain how you or youths like you are paying the price? The youths that are paying the price are those who are not like you. They are the one’s who volunteered to serve in the armed forces. They made just as much of a decision as did any adult who sent them there. Likewise, they are repeating that decision after having been there by re-upping. </p>
<p>You are well within your rights to decide to not enlist. However, you are not within your rights to speak for those who are not like you.</p>
<p>We, Americans, especially the Republicans, and the Nominator of the head of the Veterans Affairs, are deeply ashamed and owe our Veterans and Youth much more than what they have so far received. </p>
<p>Personally I think that SS is a fine idea. </p>
<p>I was on a small business trip last year with a NG Recruiter who was retiring. They have a tough job, however easier than regular army. What amazed me was the fact only a small fraction of the eligible personnel they interview are qualified for Service. He had trouble in keeping up with the new directives coming down from Washington on new recruitment guidelines. The number one reason for disqualification happened to be physical fitness and weight-height ratios. </p>
<p>Has anyone thought what a situation would be like where the US would need a draft? The run up of GW’s War was done only in a few months, at least publicly. How fast can you draft and train an army? And on the other prospective, those who we fight, have now 6 LONG years in recruiting, training, and endoctrinating a vengeful fighting force. We fellow Americans are in deep dodo.</p>
<p>Fundingfather - the youth of today will be literally ‘paying the price" for the trillions of dollars of debt your political heroes have run up with their “borrow and spend” shell game politics for decades. They will also have to deal with the legacy of physically, mentally and emotionally damaged peers returning from Iraq who will be an ongoing problem for society as they deal - for the rest of their lives - with the trauma they have sustained in the ongoing extension of combat for no actual purpose other than to make sure that GB’s war isn’t officially “lost” until after he leaves office. They will also have to deal with the consequences of global warming, which was denied long past any scientific justification by your boys in D.C. because it threatened the profits of their buddy’s corporations. Your chosen political "leaders’ have screwed the younger generation six ways from Sunday - and smirked about it it as they did it.</p>
<p>How dare you question the right of a young person to speak out against the selfish, unjustifiable burdens members of our generation have heaped on their shoulders for crass, short-term profits and political gain? Until all of supporters of the current administration step up to rectify the myriad ways his administration has abused America you have no right to do anything but apologize to every young citizen you meet. Shame on you.</p>
<p>Call the Pope!! We’ve found another infallible being. All hail kluge, redeemer of all the lowly sinners. Please, show us our wrongs and help us to right them, oh merciful one.</p>
<p>kluge, please step off your little self-righteous soap box and read my comments. I addressed only the issue of a voluntary army of which SunPenguin is not a part. For him/her to say that he/she “bears the burden” for decisions regarding war is totally ludicrous. As I accurately point out, those who bear the burdens do so voluntarily and certainly don’t need one of their “peers” to stand up for them. Oh, and the “burden” of seeing disabled soldiers in the future - you aren’t really serious are you?</p>
<p>Do you deny that there will be thousands upon thousands of disabled soldiers in the future, FF? There are already, and we haven’t begun to see the true extent of The Iraqi war vets’ injuries and disabilities, both physical and mental, and the toll such disabilities will take on our already underfunded VA</p>
<p>The debt from the Iraq war is peanuts (as a % of GDP) compared to WWII, and the country survived that little financial crisis all right. Likewise, the number of disabled veterans from Iraq will be much smaller than Vietnam and much, much (thousands upon thousands) smaller than WWII or Korea. So, Allmusic, why don’t you make a clear statement of your position ?</p>
<p>Opie, even in WWII it took 11 months until the US could field a single Corps in North Africa, and another nine months before the army was able to invade Sicily. The Normandy invasion was more than two-and-a-half years after Pearl Harbor. Given the level of training required in modern warfare, it is unlikely that a crash program to train significant numbers of new soldiers, sailors and airmen could have any real impact in less than 18-24 months. The equipment to arm them doesn’t exist, and I’m not even sure weapons would be available in that time frame. This is where the term “come as you are” warfare comes from. In modern war, “90-day wonders” are only good for filling body bags.</p>
<p>EDITED: I have always been opposed to the Iraq war, and still don’t understand what the US is doing there. What a really dumb idea.</p>
<p>Wa dad, not really a disagreement with your last statement except… in the case of WWII we had a dramatic shift from butter to guns so to speak. We also had a plan, so Normandy was down the road a bit. I don’t think it was target #1 when we joined. So I don’t know if you can use it as a prime example of our speed of reaction then.</p>
<p>Rather you could use it to show how preparing for an offensive was put together and how long it took while in the middle of a war. </p>
<p>We had resources committed to defense and we were ingaged in both the pacific and atlantic theathers of operation “while” we were building up for Dday. So again, depending on how you look at it, 11 months is pretty dam impressive to build up for a major invasion while still fighting on two fronts. no? </p>
<p>What war were we engaged in while planning Iraq? So the comparison you cite, I believe proves how unprepared this admin was and how illresponsible they were in their approach. The comparison of the bush wh and roosevelts wh in a time of war, makes bush look small time.</p>
<p>^. I think ya kinda lost 10 points for that argument.</p>
<p>Perhaps this argument is better: </p>
<p>“`I never intended to cause harm or injury to the United States, its government or its people,‘’ said xxxxx, who wore a green prison jumpsuit, handcuffs and leg shackles.”</p>
<p>“The number of soldiers lost during WWII due to bad planning/mistakes dwarfs any losses in Iraq due to bad planning.”</p>
<p>to the bitter end eh FF? Are you going to go down in history as the last Bushie? </p>
<p>Just so you don’t think I’m a Bush family hater, I wish his dad was still in office for this one too.</p>
<p>Dad did far better in war management, bringing other countries in to help the cause and every day it becomes clearer and clearer. But you hold on to your belief that this guy in office right now is the “bees knees”. Junior should have read dad’s book.</p>
</p>