<p>From the GW Hatchet:</p>
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<p><a href=“http://media.www.gwhatchet.com/media/storage/paper332/news/2007/04/05/News/Selling.Gw.Coast.To.Coast.Regional.Admissions.Directors.Recruit.Highschoolers-2824806.shtml?reffeature=mostemailedtab[/url]”>http://media.www.gwhatchet.com/media/storage/paper332/news/2007/04/05/News/Selling.Gw.Coast.To.Coast.Regional.Admissions.Directors.Recruit.Highschoolers-2824806.shtml?reffeature=mostemailedtab</a></p>
<p>I can’t even IMAGINE how much money this costs GW! Perhaps the reason why this is occurring is that GW needs this sort of infracstructure in order to fight for their spot on the ladder of institutional reputation. This is a very **corporate structure ** which worries me a little bit because it means they are pumping thousands of dollars into a school which still admits 38% of the class and gets about 20,000 applicants. </p>
<p>I feel that while most colleges have similar structures (AdComs take care of specific regions) they don’t actually live there. In fact, I feel most colleges have strong alumni bases who end up helping with college fairs, interviews and admitted student receptions and don’t need people to live out there who are full-time employees. They wouldn’t be doing this if they didn’t ** need ** it. </p>
<p>** Let us not forget the cost of a GW education is $51,770!! ** And the Middle 50% is still only 1200-1390 SAT I. Also, a quick look at their institutional research site shows that the 6 year graduation rate is but 78.5%. </p>
<p>Perhaps it might be smarter to put more money into retaining their students rather than recruiting them. </p>
<p><a href=“Office of Institutional Research & Planning | The George Washington University”>Office of Institutional Research & Planning | The George Washington University;
<p>I think GW knows what is good for GW. They are the most expensive school in the country and they are trying to increase applications. I see more school imitating GW’s strategy than going the other way. In fact, I can’t think of any schools that have reduced tuition in an attempt to attract qualified students, or narrowed their marketing focus to obtain a smaller but more qualified applicant pool that might produce a higher yield.</p>
<p>They give a lot of merit money though. I mean, if you meet some SAT/GPA cutoff, it’s half tuition. Second child is half tuition. These things drive the list price up for everyone else. They aren’t as generous with need based aid as some other schools, from what I’ve seen. I mean, in terms of more middle class families. </p>
<p>Whatever GW is doing is working. I see a lot on these boards that surprise me - GW’s national reputation seems better than it’s local reputation. Around here, GW is attractive because it’s in the city, but most people don’t seem willing to pay for it over other schools (probably because it’s not worth that much more than UMd or UVA, considering the price w/o aid). I know a lot of kids who apply and get in and don’t go because of the price. I saw a thread on the Admissions board here calling it a “top top school in the country.” Maybe. Maybe I’m just used to it, I don’t know, that kind of surprised me. Don’t get me wrong, it’s a good school, and not everything should ride on prestige. But I think some people are more attracted to the idea of GW than they are actually compelled to GWU for some specific reason. </p>
<p>Although I think the other city schools (GW/American mainly) have picked up some of the slack for Georgetown’s increasing selectivity and have gotten to play more selective themselves, because GW can be seen as a “match” to Georgetown’s “reach.”</p>
<p>" Let us not forget the cost of a GW education is $51,770"</p>
<p>A caveat on that is the tuition is guaranteed for four years i.e. it won’t go up while you are there. Also that $51,770 is total cost not justn tuition. When you look at a school it would behoove you to take a look at how much they have been raising tuition and room and board each year and remember to compound those number. GW also has merit money for students who maintain very high GPAs - I think it is a 3.7.</p>
<p>Full disclosure - I am a GWU graduate, Attended many years ago. I have mixed feeelinga about the school but enjoyed my four years there a lot. Also met the smartest person I’ve ever known there and married her. Well maybe she isn’t as smart as I think if she married me but still…</p>
<p>I believe the school is definitely on the upswing and has had excellent leadership for a number of years. The law school is outstanding, the med school is good, and the undergraduatesb are getting better and better. It is not a school for everybody. If you are looking for old ivy covered walls on a green campus look elsewhere. If you are looking for a campus in the middle of the most important city in the world this is it.</p>
<p>As the parent of a recent GWU grad AND a HS college counselor, I have always found my local GWU rep to be helpful, available and interested in meeting with applicants one-on-one to determine if they are a good fit for the university. My daughter graduated in four years, got a good job; she’s supported herself from day one. I know that some interested in a more elite education will look down their nose, but aren’t we all interested in having our kids become self-sufficient?</p>
<p>Self-sufficiency comes much cheaper than $51K. GW is a good school, no doubt and attracts 20K applicants a year. This is undeniable.</p>
<p>What isn’t clear is why they are so expensive when their competitors who are often more selective have maintained a sticker price (and often actual price) lower than that of GW. ‘Merit’ money based on SAT/GPA requirements at GW appears to be used to lure stronger students away from more selective schools; consequently, the money that would have been able to allow students to access GW at all is now most likely being used on students who could have been able to afford it in the first place. </p>
<p>GW, in my opinion, just seems very corporate and I’m not sure if this feels right for private higher education.</p>
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Why do you assume that the needy kids are not also high scoring, desirable students? Needy kids are not shut out from merit scholarships. </p>
<p>The financial page at GW did remind me of a corporate reward program, similar to the ones I put in place when I was a sales/marketing manager. “You Get What You Reward” was my management strategy. The trick was finding what reward would motivate individuals. It’s not always money, although that was usually the ticket. I also love the way GW gives hope & incentive to those students who are short of a scholarship when entering by offering the 3.7 GPA scholarship for enrolled kids. </p>
<p>It’s funny that what didn’t “feel right” for one person is extremely appealing for another. Guess that’s why we have thousands of colleges from which to choose.</p>
<p>Wealth - we live in a meritocracy. If you want from each accoding to his ability to each according to his need there is always Cuba or Brown. Of course when you take a look at the enrollment of the average elite LAC or Ivy you are going to see one striking deficiency in their diversity as well - near total absence of kids from middle income homes and this is typical of need only colleges.</p>
<p>At least at GW you can get a scholarship for doing well and a free ride for doing excellent. And if that doesn’t float your boat there is plenty of need only aid at Brown assuming you can get in.</p>
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LOL! Maybe Brown can use this line in their promotional materials…</p>
<p>I also applaud GW for its growth in appeal/stature. When I attended several decades ago the school was N-O-T-H-I-N-G and today it is something. Granted that “something” is not what everyone would like (where is the frisbee lawn on that campus anyway?) but it’s hard to argue that the old GW was better. And GW isn’t the only school that’s altered its profile – consider BC and NYU. Perhaps one day every school will have unique appeal to some student faction. Frankly I’m tired of reading threads entitled “Columbia or Brown.” Oh for the day when the threads are “Reed or Sweet Briar” and “Cal State Fullerton or College of the Atlantic” (meaning no disrespect to any of these institutions).</p>
<p>It has an endowment about double that of Georgetown, which, 25 years ago, was best known for Patrick Ewing and teaching Romanian to low-level state department flunkies, and which paid their Jesuit faculty half what faculty at other schools made, with higher tuition. In my day, Georgetown got the rejects from St. John’s, much as NYU got the CCNY rejects (and kids desperate to get out of Missouri.)</p>
<p>As to whether either is “worth it”, that’s in the eyes of the beholder.</p>
<p>My son applied to GW as a polysci major. He wants to go into law, is a total political junkie and found GW to be an ideal school for him. His stats were good enough to earn a $22k merit scholarship and Honors program status from Tulane. Tulane is also a nationally recognized university in a major city with a well regarded law school.</p>
<p>From GW he received no merit aid, did not get into the Honor’s program, but did receive in his FA package a trustees scholarship for $14k. If GW had made a comparable package to Tulane, he would have had a tough time deciding, since he loved the DC campus and all of its internship and networking possibilities. But the difference financially was just too great. I’d have to believe that the stats for students admitted into Tulane and GW would not be too different. Maybe he could have negotiated a better package with GW. But Tulane allowed him to apply EA, gave him merit money at the outset and generally acted like they wanted him more. GW seemed to treat him like another polysci number, even tho he took great care with his application and had what he thought was a great interview. He also visited the school.</p>
<p>Some of us who lived in the DC area always thought GW was a real estate firm masquerading as a university. Lol.</p>
<p>GW has a lower acceptance rate than Tulane and a much higher yield. It is very popular for its location and its proximity to the wealthy NE states with relatively unattractive state universities put it in a better competitive position than Tulane. That is likely one of the reasons for the lower merit offer.</p>
<p>As for the quality of the students Tulane probably still has a litle edge post-katrina for the undergraduate schools. GW has a big edge for Law and Medicine. The graduate programs depend on which departments you are talking about.</p>
<p>GW didn’t make the list of top 50 best values this year which leads me to believe students are graduating with a significant amount of debt (~29K). I guess my perceptions of GW are a bit skewed perhaps (we all have our views of schools and are entitled to them of course).</p>
<p>My view is simply for the quality of education that it provides, it just seems awfully expensive. </p>
<p>And to:</p>
<p>“Why do you assume that the needy kids are not also high scoring, desirable students? Needy kids are not shut out from merit scholarships?”</p>
<p>The reality is (and statistical evidence supports this) that high need, lower income students are not the ones scoring highly on the SAT which GW uses for scholarship/merit money. Typically the merit money is used to lure students away from other schools and who can afford to pay the full fare while the needy students don’t get a piece of the pie due to lower testing performance on average.<br>
<a href=“http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/CollegeAndFamily/CutCollegeCosts/TheBestValuesInPrivateColleges.aspx?page=2[/url]”>http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/CollegeAndFamily/CutCollegeCosts/TheBestValuesInPrivateColleges.aspx?page=2</a></p>
<p>My D used GW (Eliot School) as her safety school. For her, it was a great, albeit expensive, back-up plan because of the internship possibilities in our Nation’s Capital. I advise one of the sororities at GW and my young sisters are all savvy, smart women.</p>
<p>“The reality is (and statistical evidence supports this) that high need, lower income students are not the ones scoring highly on the SAT which GW uses for scholarship/merit money.”</p>
<p>Of course they are also not getting into the need only schools because their SATs are not high are they? Brown (using Brown generically here as representative) filters out most the kids neding a lot of aid by having admissions standards that very few poor kids can meet. GW filters them out by not giving them merit aid. The net result is the same in either case as far as the rich and the poor are concerned.</p>
<p>Now for the middle class it might be a different kettle of fish. Merit lets the middle class kid attend a private university instead of state u. The Brown’s of the world might mask their merit aid as need only by finding more need than there really is or by meeting it with grants instead of loans for exceptional students that they really want. That of course doesn’t make them more socially responsible. It just makes them hypocrites, but then hypocrisy is the homage vice pass to virtue and therefore not to be despised.</p>
<p>Even with the merit aid, it’s still pretty pricey. it’s half tuition, right? Before R&B…the R&B is pretty expensive I think. UVA and W&M are fairly expensive for state schools, I guess, but I know people who still turn GW down for the price difference. UVA is about $20,000 for 2007-2008 IS and someone told me that their GW package with the merit aid was about $35,000, though I could be remembering that wrong. Both those figures would be for everything. </p>
<p>Although half tuition is certainly better than the sticker price, I’m just saying that it’s not necessarily going to make it affordable for those who don’t get any need aid. And IME American has been a little more generous with need aid, maybe because they don’t give so much merit aid. I don’t really know though. I see tons of kids who apply to these schools but almost no one who matriculates in the end.</p>
<p>“GW filters them out by not giving them merit aid. The net result is the same in either case as far as the rich and the poor are concerned.”</p>
<p>False - GW simply does not admit needy kids it seems. Why raise your admit rate to accept kids you they know can’t afford to go (known as admit-deny)? It’s the same for needy internationals - they just aren’t admitted because it raises their admit rate, and reduces their yield and therefore since they can’t help needy kids, it makes no sense for them to offer them a spot in the class.</p>
<p>Now that’s a corporate mentality.</p>