My son is a junior, and he is debating senior AP classes. He is currently taking AP Calc BC and took AP Physics 1 as a freshman (and has taken 4 other APs). His school offers Multivariable calculus and AP Physics - C, but he is thinking of not taking either. Instead he is considering this schedule.
Honors English
Honors Theology
AP Stats
AP Econ
AP Environmental Science
AP Spanish
These classes interest him the most. But my question is, how bad will it look for college applications that he didn’t take either of those 2 more challenging courses, especially multivariable? He will have 10 APs total, so that seems pretty good. And he thinks he might double major in data science and earth science in college, thus the stats and APES. And thoughts are much appreciated.
Some questions -
Has your son taken 1 year of bio and chem?
What kind of schools is your son interested in attending?
How will his guidance counselor rate the rigor of the schedule? (There is a box on the form that GCs fill out that goes with the common app).
My first instinct, even not knowing the above answers, is to take MVC over Stats. My D’s experience was AP stats didn’t help at all with college calculus based stats.
If your son already has a year of bio, chem, and physics (at any level), I think it’s a reasonable choice to take APES for a potential earth science major.
Thanks. He has taken AP Bio and AP Chem. Target schools for him are WashU, Notre Dame, Dartmouth, Cornell, BC, and Williams. His grades are all A or A+, except this year he will probably get an A- in Calc BC. Still waiting on first SAT score, but I expect it to be between 1480-1520 based on practice tests.
These reach schools will want to see the highest level of rigor if offered at the HS. I would definitely encourage MVC over stats, and talk to the guidance counselor about APES over Physics C to make sure that taking APES doesn’t impact their assessment of rigor. That rigor box is usually dependent on what his peers are taking at his schools. Some GCs are transparent about that but some aren’t so be prepared that they may not give an answer.
Based on the above responses, and depending on how the counselor rates his rigor, I’m inclined to agree with @momofboiler1
Since AOs won’t likely be going line by line to view course selections if the most demanding box is checked, one science vs another probably won’t matter for admissions, although everyone knows that there is a rigor difference between APES and Physics C. For that matter, one math vs another likely won’t be critical for admissions. However AP stats, being non-calculus based, will be useless in college for a stem major compared to MVC
While AP statistics (whose content is like that of a non-calculus-based general education statistics course in college) can be useful in confirming (or not confirming) interest in statistics / data science as a college major, note that calculus and multivariable calculus are likely more important as prerequisites to more advanced statistics courses in college. However, a high school (instead of college) multivariable calculus course is unlikely to give additional advanced placement in college.
Assuming the student has the requisite four years of English, Math (and more so), social science, language, etc. - I don’t think they have anything to prove.
There will be kids with even less rigor - at the schools listed.
I do agree with putting your best foot forward - but even that is no guarantee - and in the end, the student should study what interests them - and HS shouldn’t be miserable.
Perhaps they don’t get into Williams or WUSTL - but if not, then it’s their loss.
No one is getting shunned because they’ve only done Calc BC in HS.
What will the student study in college? I’m not sure AP stats is necessary.
Student is considering data science and earth science. AP statistics probably won’t be that useful for advanced placement, but could help confirm (or not) interest in statistics and data science.
I really appreciate this perspective too. And I agree on many levels. I want him to take classes he is excited about. And there are plenty of great schools out there where I am sure he can be successful. I’ve talked to him though, and shared the perspectives from this discussion, and he is leaning toward multivariable. I’m thinking maybe a brief online stats course over the summer can give him the exposure we were hoping for.
I don’t disagree with the position re rigor and IME that schedule as is looking light for the target schools gives the offerings. My only beef is with the stats being useless in college. Pretty much everyone in college, no matter the major, benefits from some knowledge of statistics. Multi will almost certainly be retaken in college. Still, its what colleges want to see, so…
My point, which I could have phrased better, is if the STEM major requires statistics, it will likely be calculus-based statistics, which generally won’t require another stats course as a prerequisite. So AP Stats is a nice course, but perhaps not the best choice when MVC is an option.
Got it. And yes, not the best. No one will look back and wonder if they should have takes AP Stats instead, but if that is what they choose, they might just find themselves wondering if they should have gone with MVC. While they will most certainly never know, I generally try to avoid what ifs where I can.
So this is my take too. I think getting some exposure to statistics is useful for a lot of fields, even if it is fairly basic. However, it seems the consensus is that MVC will be viewed much more favorably by colleges (and potentially the school counselor). It’s a shame there isn’t an AP Stats course that matches the rigor of MVC.
Yes, they could have “AP Stats C” in addition to the existing “AP Stats 1” similar to calculus based vs. non calculus based physics. Could be both rigorous and useful. Too bad instead they chose to put effort into developing AP Precalculus. But I suppose precalculus is probably a bigger market for them than calculus based statistics.
Precalculus is not really “advanced placement” in that precalculus is the normal non-advanced 12th grade math.
But the motivation to have it as AP seems to be:
The College Board test revenue.
High schools wanting to run up the number of AP courses.
Colleges annoyed by frosh unprepared for calculus due to low quality precalculus in high school, and annoyed by having to do their own math placement testing, resulting in many students repeating precalculus in college.
Selective schools expect you to push and challenge yourself according to what is available. If the school offers MVC, that is what they expect.
I don’t think they penalize a kid for only getting to AP AB (D22) or AP BC (S24) if that is their path, but I do think they view it as a negative if someone who took those classes earlier than 12th grade calls it day when the school offers classes beyond that.