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<p>Is female promiscuity equate to yielding power over men? Is this why it concerns you?</p>
<p>“Since when did men attain such fine control over such things? If you don’t want Y to happen, don’t engage in activity X which always precedes Y.”</p>
<p>Men just have no self-control once they get started, do they?</p>
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<p>I’m not sure exactly what is being described here.</p>
<p>Are we talking about a woman who is not playing “hard to get” games, but simply choosing to have sex when, where, and with whom she desires? A woman who simply claims and enjoys her own sexuality? I certainly hope not!</p>
<p>Or are we talking about a woman who has sex when she doesn’t want to because she feels the need to curry favor with guys she perceives as socially powerful? If so, she needs to reclaim her self-respect and act on it.</p>
<p>I find the whole idea that playing games around one’s sexuality is necessary in order to appeal to men extremely distasteful. I would hope that men have evolved beyond that kind of nonsense. Sure, the Steubenville crowd clearly bought into it, but they were a passel of clearly ignorant teenage jocks. One of the goals of modern feminism was to free both women AND men from this kind of benighted thinking.</p>
<p>I would be beyond appalled if I thought that my son viewed woman that way.</p>
<p>The Vassar case boggles the mind.</p>
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<p>We need to get away from this. There is nothing in that report to indicate anything like this, only the sadly repeated phrase “nonconsensual sex within the context of consensual activity”. It’s their new fancy phrase for date rape and it results in a written reprimand or counseling most often, unless the victim decides not to go forward. Very sad. </p>
<p>Here’s one example:</p>
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<p>Vassar’s policies and procedures can be found here (p 124) <a href=“Home - Dean of the College”>Home - Dean of the College; Imagine they must have had some foundation to take the action they did.</p>
<p>Yale’s report of complaints can be found here <a href=“http://provost.yale.edu/sites/default/files/files/FINAL_Jul2013_Report_Sexual_Misconduct_Complaints_7-31-13.pdf[/url]”>http://provost.yale.edu/sites/default/files/files/FINAL_Jul2013_Report_Sexual_Misconduct_Complaints_7-31-13.pdf</a></p>
<p>I actually agree with mini. If it’s rape it should be reported to the police first and foremost. If I had daughters I’d be pounding that in their heads.</p>
<p>*My Quote:
It saddens me that some girls cheapen themselves by being “too available”, “too needy”, and “too easy”. Men are wired to treasure what takes some effort.</p>
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Consolation’s response:
I’m not sure exactly what is being described here.</p>
<p>Are we talking about a woman who is not playing “hard to get” games, but simply choosing to have sex when, where, and with whom she desires? A woman who simply claims and enjoys her own sexuality? I certainly hope not!</p>
<p>Or are we talking about a woman who has sex when she doesn’t want to because she feels the need to curry favor with guys she perceives as socially powerful? If so, she needs to reclaim her self-respect and act on it.</p>
<p>I find the whole idea that playing games around one’s sexuality is necessary in order to appeal to men extremely distasteful. I would hope that men have evolved beyond that kind of nonsense. Sure, the Steubenville crowd clearly bought into it, but they were a passel of clearly ignorant teenage jocks. One of the goals of modern feminism was to free both women AND men from this kind of benighted thinking.*</p>
<p>What I’m talking about is what I’ve observed: Too many lovely young ladies who think they have to “make all the effort,” rarely get taken anywhere, and largely being used for sex. </p>
<p>Yes, I do think these girls are setting aside their own wants/needs/standards for what they perceive is necessary to get a guy. </p>
<p>That slang phrase “walk of shame” was coined to describe college girls walking back to their dorms in the early hours after spending the night with some hook-up.</p>
<p>* I would hope that men have evolved beyond that kind of nonsense. *</p>
<p>“Men” maybe…but a number of 18-22 year old hormoned-crazy college boys have not. I’m not saying that there aren’t some college men who behave in a respectful manner. My own sons haven’t participated in the hook-up culture. They’re the “relationship” types. </p>
<p>* A [young] woman who simply claims and enjoys her own sexuality? I certainly hope not!*</p>
<p>I added the word “young” because the discussion was about young women, not women in general. Frankly, I’ve never met a woman who sleeps around claiming that she enjoys her sexuality that didn’t also have some serious self-esteem issues.</p>
<p>^^well, I have.</p>
<p>Both among my female friends in the 70s and among the young women I know today, exists a (relatively) small group who like sex and like to experiment and absolutely don’t intend every encounter to lead to a relationship. In the 70s these young women really felt pressured to protect their reputations. Today, when I read these posts, I understand reputation is still - sadly - a concern.</p>
<p>Some of these young women absolutely wanted to get married and have a family - at some point in time - but not in the foreseeable future. They wanted other experiences first. I think for these women, it absolutely makes sense to have multiple partners. When I think of my “experimental” 70s friends, none of them have divorced. The ones who married high school and college sweethearts, without a lot of other experience? Pretty high percentage.</p>
<p>Purely anecdotal of course.</p>
<p>Perhaps, but where it all crosses the line is in the morning when the woman decides if she was raped or not raped. There is no “in between” in my opinion. Regret does not equal rape. I think it’s beyond belief that we’ve have somehow decided that it’s OK for college administrators to decide which is which as if our kids can’t figure it out or at the very minimal our police and our judicial system.</p>
<p>What I see when I read all these articles is that society still blames the “girls” for whatever goes wrong. I would like to believe young women, in general, have this much power. I don’t.</p>
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<p>JYM, this is from the Vassar document. If what the accused says is true, it would appear that they violated this one, at the very least. I really do not understand how a panel could convict and expel a student without listening to any of the evidence they wished to present. We know that the Title IX policies strongly discourage the accused being allowed to “cross examine” the accuser. The fact that the complainant was the daughter of a colleague? The alleged behavior of the accuser is mind-boggling. The alleged behavior of the panel is also. </p>
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<p>One could equally say that the willingness of the accused to take his case to court is evidence that HE must have reason, also.</p>
<p>The truth apparently remains to be seen.</p>
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<p>Well, to some extent I would agree, but it probably depends on one’s definition of “sleeps around.” :)</p>
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<p>Ah, but they do. They really do. Saying someone raped you is a very powerful statement. Being able to enforce a man to pay for a child for 18 years because the woman wants to have the baby is a very powerful position. And I say this as a woman first and as a mother of boys second, a somewhat unique position shared by others but not all.</p>
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<p>According to the lawsuit filed against Vassar College, the plaintiff states that Vassar violated some of its own bylaws in hastily conducting the trial where he was denied reasonable time or ability to put forth a reasonable defense and expelling him just around 2 weeks after the charges were filed. </p>
<p>It also cites possible biases/undue influence the accuser’s father is a faculty member and those who made the decision to expel him were all colleagues by virtue of their positions at the college. Some newsmedia/blogs also cite possible racial discriminatory factors due to the fact he’s an international Chinese student and the accuser is a native-born American, White, and a child of a faculty member. </p>
<p>Thus, while we’re only hearing his side of the story, there’s enough which doesn’t pass the smell test that having faith that the college “had some foundation to take the action they did” is a bit premature at this point. Better to wait until there’s more information from subsequent filings, judgments, and more from the lawsuit.</p>
<h1>272</h1>
<p>I am a woman and a mother of sons, only sons. It had never occurred to me before reading this sort of thread to be concerned about someone falsely accusing one of my sons of rape. After giving some serious consideration to the idea, I find it about as likely they would be flattened by a falling meteor and less likely than being hit by lightening. I can’t imagine the circumstances arising that they would find themselves in that sort of risky situation.</p>
<p>I am not worried about all these young women just waiting to entrap my sons and cry rape. I am sort of worried about lightening.</p>
<p>^^ Two classmates of my youngest son have been in that position this year. One case was dismissed and one is sitting in jail and had to defer college for a semester because he won’t be out in time. I will not and cannot say whether it’s right or wrong in these cases. The first was dismissed because the girl did not really want to report and was aware of what she was doing, but the mother was heavily involved in the intitial police report and my son was questioned so I knew abit more. I do not know the circumstances regarding the second as we are not friends with the parents… but most certainly young men can find themselves in this situation, it’s naive not to understand that and my boys are fully aware of what can happen because it’s hit close to home. In general more times than not the legal system does it’s job. No system is perfect, but allowing college administrators to determine legal questions is fraught with possibilities of inconsistency like those being discussed here.</p>
<p>Let me see if I have this right --</p>
<p>-- Women who are “too available” should feel ashamed because their sexual partner won’t take them out on a date and uses them for sex.</p>
<p>–Only women arriving home in the early hours after having sex feel shame?</p>
<p>–It’s only in the morning that women decide if they’ve been raped?</p>
<p>-- women are trapping men into being fathers?</p>
<p>Are we in some vicious time warp? Did the last 4 decades not even happen?</p>
<p>My sons are grown. Girls have been calling them up since they were in their early teens, even the gay son. Maybe, especially the gay son. By high school, I was asked to screen calls. We had a lot of discussions about not hurting the feelings of these young women. My thought is that a date is no big deal, just a date. My sons explained to me their concerns about even one date with some young women. They did not want there to be an expectation that a relationship was possible. I don’t know if my sons were born cautious or learned caution. They are thoughtful and careful about their sexual partners. … very thoughtful and extremely careful.</p>
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<p>And contrary to what some research has found.</p>
<p>[Premarital</a> Sex, Premarital Cohabitation, and the Risk of Subsequent Marital Dissolution Among Women - Teachman - 2004 - Journal of Marriage and Family - Wiley Online Library](<a href=“http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1741-3737.2003.00444.x/abstract]Premarital”>http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1741-3737.2003.00444.x/abstract)</p>
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<p>A-n-d we’re right back where we started. </p>
<p>Why do these studies only focus on women and their behavior? And as other posters have repeatedly pointed out, many of these studies are funded by those political groups with a social agenda.</p>
<p>Does a study exist that measures the risk of marital disruption and dissolution based on how many premarital sex partners the husband had?</p>
<p>ETA: cross posted</p>
<p>If we don’t like the hook up culture - those of us with sons need to teach our sons - “Don’t do hook-ups!” not blame young women. IMHO YMMV</p>