<p>alh…</p>
<p>In your post #290 you have three quotes that you seem to attribute all to me. the third quote is not mine so your response makes no sense.</p>
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<p>To do what. I trust they won’t bankrupt the college while my kids there, but I certainly wouldn’t trust them to deal with criminal behavior. Why would I. If I was assaulted in my office building I’d call the police.</p>
<p>Jonri, if these other girls reported it to security and security didn’t call the RA and the RA didn’t stop by the room to check on the girl…and leave making sure her room was locked there is more wrong at that college that administration’s handling of a “trial.”</p>
<h1>341 You are correct. The post makes no sense. So sorry. Both here and in real life, I rarely make sense.</h1>
<p>He claims to have been a virgin before they had sex, and further claims that she boasted about it, which would argue against his having a history of sexually assaulting drunk girls.</p>
<p>Of course, who knows what he or she considered to be “virginity.” Who knows anything in cases like these, where no one goes to the police or reports to anyone immediately after the event. Not to mention the fact that the claimant chooses to maintain an apparently friendly relationship with the respondent afterwards, even inviting him to her family home. </p>
<p>It is also true that the Vassar policy offers a hint at why his penalty may have been expulsion: it is considered if there is more than one complaint against the individual. (I don’t recall what the status of the complaint has to be, and I’m not going to plow through the document again, but I noticed it when I read it the first time.) This would offer a possible explanation for why the ex might have called security. </p>
<p>But again, who knows.</p>
<p>I do think that no evidence has been presented that would indicate racism. The fact that a white student received a different penalty means little without knowing the particulars of the case.</p>
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<p>One of the things which needs to be established one way or another was whether the alleged victim was drunk or not as that is disputed in the filed lawsuit. </p>
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<p>You’re assuming the alleged victim was drunk. That’s one of the disputed facts in the lawsuit which has to be examined and scrutinized if and when it goes to trial. </p>
<p>Moreover, I’ve witnessed several relationships which ended with one or both parties being petty and vindictive to the point of trading accusations I knew were categorically false. Worse, all involved folks who were past traditional undergrad age…including folks well into their 50s. </p>
<p>Not saying it necessarily happened here. However, based on the lack of information, that possibility cannot be ruled out altogether either.</p>
<p>Since there were no BAL’s taken at the time of the incident, they will probably have to go on witness reports of their activities and appearance before, at or after the rowing team party as well as any admission of alcohol consumption at the time. </p>
<p>Agree with consolation’s observations of the policies and reasonable supposition that perhaps this was not this student’s first brush with the disciplinary bodies at VC. And again, maybe he was harassing the former love interest or this rowing team partner. We do not know.</p>
<p>Awfully silent about all the articles posted about Oberlin, cobrat. What are your thoughts on these articles, incidents and reports?</p>
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<p>I think my posting on #337 more than adequately covers those Oberlin cases along with those at other colleges.</p>
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<p>You don’t trust because you are familiar with legal procedures. But young college kids are different. Even an average parent does not know how to handle it. It’s not unusual in court that defendant lawyers reject evidences presented by prosecutors because the legal procedures are disputable.</p>
<p>Coming back to the VC case momentarily, the school has a lot of information available that delineates their definition of violence, abuse, sexual assault, etc as well as resources, procedures, etc. They do refer to the legal definition of consent, and that an intoxicated person cannot give consent. Suspect that when both are intoxicated (conjecturing here), neither can give “consent”. The potential consequences of the various potential offenses can be steep. [Sexual</a> Assault: Definitions - Safety and Security - Vassar College](<a href=“Campus Safety – Vassar College”>Campus Safety – Vassar College) [About</a> - Sexual Assault Violence Prevention (SAVP) - Vassar College](<a href=“Support, Advocacy, & Violence Prevention – Vassar College”>http://savp.vassar.edu/) </p>
<p>[It</a> could be abuse if… - Sexual Assault Violence Prevention (SAVP) - Vassar College](<a href=“Support, Advocacy, & Violence Prevention – Vassar College”>Support, Advocacy, & Violence Prevention – Vassar College)</p>
<p>[What</a> is Consent? - Sexual Assault Violence Prevention (SAVP) - Vassar College](<a href=“Support, Advocacy, & Violence Prevention – Vassar College”>Support, Advocacy, & Violence Prevention – Vassar College)</p>
<p>[Sexual</a> Assault Resources at Vassar College](<a href=“http://www.vassar.edu/information/article130.html]Sexual”>http://www.vassar.edu/information/article130.html)</p>
<p>And nice duck and weave, cobrat. Easier to talk about the incidents at other schools than at Oberlin. The schools have all had their problems with poor management of these situations. Please address the specific Oberlin cases. What are your comments, thoughts, opinions of the specific cases sited at Oberlin? There are at least 3 links in this thread (posts 330, 331, 333) to separate issues. Note, however that the quote provided in post 333 happens to reference the case mentioned in post 331. The full article in post 333 provides additional information.</p>
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<p>I don’t purport to know whether the young woman was drunk or not. However, based on newspaper accounts, the law suit does not contest the fact two female Vassar students called campus security to report that they were uneasy when they saw a visibly intoxicated female being escorted back to the dorms by the accused. The articles about the incident in Asian American periodicals quoted by cobrat don’t mention the fact that there was an allegation that the alleged victim was intoxicated. Nor do cobrat’s prior posts about the articles. </p>
<p>I think that is a serious omission.</p>
<p>The allegations that the accused was a “virgin” and that the alleged victim had prior sexual experience are irrelevant to the issue of whether there was consensual sex. If she was drunk, she couldn’t consent. Publishing articles which claim that the accused was discriminated against on racial grounds while failing to mention the fact that there is some evidence that the victim was intoxicated and thus unable to give consent is not responsible journalism, IMO. Again, YMMV and cobrat’s obviously does.</p>
<p>Contrary to cobrat’s assertion, I am NOT assuming that the alleged victim was in fact drunk. I am only assuming that the board which adjudicated the case and expelled the accused considered evidence which supported the conclusion that she was.</p>
<p>Btw, i genuinely hope none of your colleagues, classmates,friends, cousins or other relatives were in any way involved in those situations. Hoping they are all far removed from the oberlin incidents.</p>
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<p>Very touching of you to make insinuations about me or those I know due to some disagreements over whether college administrations/judicial boards are the best venue to adjudicate such cases…</p>
<p>You completely misread or perhaps purposely chose to misinterpret my post. I said, and I repeat, that I genuinely hope no one you know or care about was involved
In any of these situations. I meant that with all sincerity. Sorry if you did not understand it to be that way. Don’t know how to be any clearer with that. Now, your thoughts or comments on those cases?</p>
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<p>I didn’t misread your post. My experience has been that folks who make comments like you did in #351 are often doing so to cast aspersions on those with whom they have disagreements. </p>
<p>Otherwise, no reasonable-minded person having a discussion would think about “making it personal” as you just did in that comment.</p>
<p>You need to try to be less defensive. I meant that with all sincerity. As a female who has known victims of sexual assault and people who have been wrongly accused of something they did not do, I can tell you it is not a place you or anyone you care about wants to be. But if instead you choose to use your defensiveness and accusations as a way of continuing to avoid my question, then that is your choice.</p>
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<p>This is the one thing–or rather the two things–that are indisputably true. </p>
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<p><em>IF</em> his account of their sexual encounter is accurate, she consented, even if she was drunk, according to this description. (Was <em>he</em> drunk? If so, who “raped” who?)</p>
<p><em>IF</em> it is true that she sent him an unsolicited FB message the next day saying that she “had a wonderful time,” to me that is very difficult to square with lack of consent. Regret does not equal lack of consent. Having said that, it is difficult to imagine a young woman voluntarily subjecting herself to the notoriety and unpleasantness of pursuing a complaint if it is manufactured. On the other hand, perhaps she had no idea that there would be any notoriety. There wouldn’t be if he hadn’t filed suit.</p>
<p>Too many ifs at play here, IMHO. Perhaps more of the “facts” will emerge in the trial, if there is one.</p>
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<p>I’m not being defensive. </p>
<p>Rather, I am struck by the rhetoric because it wasn’t considered an acceptable part of civil discussion/debate. Especially with my HS rhetoric/writing teachers. If anything, the classmates who made such debates “personal” the way you just did tended to be harshly chewed out by the teacher and severely marked down accordingly in the participation grade.</p>
<p>Your experiences seem to be unique, and askew from what many others here seem to have, and your interpretation of what you think is “civil discourse” is your own. When someone tells you they genuinely hope those you know or care about have not experienced such an unpleasant situation, the normal response is “thank you”.</p>
<p>So, what do you think of jonri’s comments and the situations at Oberlin?</p>
<p>jym, in cobrat’s defense, I read your original statement in #351 as sarcastic, too. 
Cobrat, you have a well-known tendency to find a family member, friend, or classmate who has experienced the same thing being discussed in virtually any situation. Perhaps you simply have a broad acquaintance and are more interested/informed in the details of their lives than most people. But it is striking.</p>
<p>Cobrat, can you please reference your OWN opinions instead of your high school teachers’ opinions? Their opinions may have loomed large for you, but why would any of us either be impressed by or care what your high school teachers think about any topic?</p>