<p>Here is a post about the UNC-CH graduate student attorney general’s training and understanding. </p>
<p>[UNC</a> Honor Court Charges Against Landen Gambill Dismissed; Report Finds No Retaliation](<a href=“HuffPost - Breaking News, U.S. and World News | HuffPost”>UNC Honor Court Charges Against Landen Gambill Dismissed; Report Finds No Retaliation | HuffPost College)</p>
<p>I agree Alh. also, there have been reports by women at Harvard that this is the case in their “system,” as well.</p>
<p><a href=“HuffPost - Breaking News, U.S. and World News | HuffPost”>HuffPost - Breaking News, U.S. and World News | HuffPost;
<p>This is/was the ubiquitious response to rape reporting on college campuses. Recently, a student from the university of Indiana wrote a piece about having to leave because the university protected her rapist, the same in the case of Notre Dame.</p>
<p>Amherst, clearly, and students at Swarthmore have also filed cases with the DOJ.</p>
<p>The whole system, system wide, at all universities, as far as I can see, has been put into place to protect these criminals.</p>
<p>the main difference I see, now, is that these young women are speaking out on campuses and refusing to be silenced. There are five women (maybe more) involved in the UNC-CH case, though this one woman is the lead since she is still a student. </p>
<p>Social media has been very powerful in helping the victims to speak up. they are talking across campuses. We can probable credit the young woman who left Amherst and the editor of the Amherst paper for publishing her account of her experience. It was her refusal to shut up which has led to this most recent development, that and the fact that the DOJ is listening and advocating for these victims, as well.</p>
<p>First, though, it starts with the courage of these young women.</p>
<p>Also, just FYI, the UNC-CH “honor” :rolleyes: court will no longer be handling these cases.</p>
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<p>Who will be handling them and what are the procedures, if you know.</p>
<p>That’s an excellent article, alh.</p>
<p>Poetgrl, I completely agree: it seems that the only way to change things is for women to report and speak up, and refused to be “shamed.” I shudder to think of the toll it must take on them to pursue this kind of thing openly, but the hidden toll of not doing so appears to be worse. </p>
<p>UNC’s new chancellor is Carol Folt, formerly the provost and last year interim president at Dartmouth. The record of the Dartmouth administration in dealing with these matters is not exactly stellar, either. (Which may or may not have been partially her fault.) It will be interesting indeed to see how she proceeds at UNC.</p>
<p>Every time I read about the hearings associated with these things, they seem grossly inadequate. I have no faith in any of them. I don’t think they are capable of determining the truth.</p>
<p>“mini’s Williams College defines “sexual misconduct” to include mutually incapacitated sexual intercourse (oral, anal or vaginal) with any object however slight. That seems to allow the institution to protect the other students by taking action against both parties if they are wasted and get into a dispute afterwards about the encounter.”</p>
<p>Yes, this is a reasonable policy, though they’ve not had to use it. The six students they expelled were criminals, and they weren’t cases of mutual incapacity. Basically, they dared the students to sue them. None of them would take up the dare. </p>
<p>I don’t think Williams in particular attracts a criminal element larger than that at comparable colleges. If there were six with offenses warranting expulsion there, there are likely 15-20 or so at Dartmouth, Yale, Princeton, etc. </p>
<p>Colleges are dangerous places.</p>
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<p>Amen. And, this is true for all kinds of alleged honor/conduct violations. Alcohol, drug, cheating. Lack of standards, selective enforcement, retaliation etc.</p>
<p>Yes, I know Folt is the new chancellor. </p>
<p>Dartmouth has it’s reputation, the thing nobody wants to talk about is that there are problems on every campus.</p>
<p>the UNC-CH case is hard on my heart, obviously, but as an alum, I feel it is my responsibility to advocate for sunshine and openness and discussion.</p>
<p>I am not alone in this, and I think this is the start of real change. What troubles me is when I hear alums and administrators defending current practices and cover ups, as “reasonable” responses to what is clearly an issue of repeat offender criminal behavior.</p>
<p>Either way, 07, I’m not sure the new procedure has been completely figured out. The administration is working with DOJ to come up with better policies. Students will not be involved.</p>
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<p>Yes, that’s why the accused has the right to remain silent, to counsel, to cross-examine witnesses and other protections in the criminal justice system. Everyone wants to protect “these criminals”. The same can be said for campus procedures that presume the accused is innocent until proven guilty.</p>
<p>In fact there is reason to believe that campus judicial procedures are stacked against men in these cases:</p>
<p>[Yale</a> Continues to Deny Due Process | Minding the Campus | August 2, 2013](<a href=“http://www.mindingthecampus.com/forum/2013/08/yale_continues_to_deny_due_pro.html]Yale”>http://www.mindingthecampus.com/forum/2013/08/yale_continues_to_deny_due_pro.html)</p>
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<p>mini:</p>
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<p>Is there somewhere you can point to that reveals the facts in those cases? As poetgrl has indicated, the college rapists are a small percent of repeaters, so what preventive or cautionary steps can a student take against being the victim of the rapist’s first rape?</p>
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<p>I thought according to the CDC stats that the rate of attempted and completed sexual assault of women at college was about half the rate of rapes of women between 18-24 in general. </p>
<p><a href=“http://www.cdc.gov/ViolencePrevention/pdf/sv-datasheet-a.pdf[/url]”>http://www.cdc.gov/ViolencePrevention/pdf/sv-datasheet-a.pdf</a></p>
<p>Is college actually MORE dangerous than “the real world?”</p>
<p>Folt’s last act at D was to declare a day of no classes in order to hold discussions/teach-ins in response to the Dimensions demonstration and the subsequent eruption of hostility. She took heat from some quarters for doing so.</p>
<p>While the Dimensions protest situation was not, IMHO, a case of demonstrators good, opponents of demonstration bad, there were elements whose reaction was unacceptable and at least she showed a willingness to take the issue seriously and take a bold public step.</p>
<p>“Is there somewhere you can point to that reveals the facts in those cases? As poetgrl has indicated, the college rapists are a small percent of repeaters, so what preventive or cautionary steps can a student take against being the victim of the rapist’s first rape?”</p>
<p>Citing privacy concerns, the College won’t release them. I expect that might have been part of the agreements to have the students leave. </p>
<p>Colleges are dangerous places.
“I thought according to the CDC stats that the rate of attempted and completed sexual assault of women at college was about half the rate of rapes of women between 18-24 in general.” </p>
<p>The great majority of women attend non-residential colleges. The rate at residential ones is much higher than in their surrounding communities.</p>
<p>Here is what the CDC factsheet says:</p>
<p>• In a nationally representative survey of adults, 37.4% of female rape victims were first raped between ages 18-24.
• In a study of undergraduate women, 19% experienced attempted or completed sexual assault since entering college.</p>
<p>These two factoids are not related.</p>
<p>Consolation–Well. I think Dartmouth has been a scapegoat of sorts in the discussions of these issues, which is why I’ve avoided any discussion of their issues.</p>
<p>The truth is that these issues exist on every campus and need to be addressed, clearly Dartmouth needs a culture change, but that doesn’t make it “unique,” just a little more obvious.</p>
<p>In the meantime, the more young women can report to police and get rape kits and bring pressure on the administrations, the better. Even if it only turns out that the perpetrators name or dna turns up more than once, this is enough to help. Repeat offenders are the biggest issue, because it is a very small number of perpetrators committing these crimes.</p>
<p>The DOJ backing the young women is very helpful, in that they are no longer so voiceless as they once were, and not quite so easily silenced. Eventually, the hope is that the male and female students will begin to see this crime as the heinous act it is, and will ostracize and punish those who commit this crime of convenience. This will bring about the biggest change, imho. It will make it easier to report, which will turn up the names of the repeaters much more quickly.</p>
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<p>Good. College judicial admin boards have too many conflicting interests which may impact the rights of both the alleged victim and the accused such as sweeping a case under the rug ASAP for institutional expediency as seems to be the case here.</p>
<p>mini:</p>
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<p>Could you possibly give me a cite to some stats that support this. My niece starts her freshman year at a residential college this month. I’d like to be able to present her with something other than “college is dangerous” on this issue. I have not been able to find these stats. Is it less dangerous then to move off campus as soon as possible?</p>
<p>07 dad, the most dangerous time for young women is between school start and thanksgiving.</p>
<p>the majority of rape victims are freshman or sophmores. It is a crime of opportunity.</p>
<p>tell her to stay out of fraternity houses unless she is with a group of friends. To never leave her friends there. To take no drinks offered by others to watch her drinks being made even in bars, and to order from the bartender, never to go alone or with a group of boys to a dorm room or anywhere without friends she trusts. </p>
<p>practice a leave no girl behind policy. Get everyone home.</p>
<p>^^all excellent advice!!</p>
<p>I have decided not having private space creates a dangerous environment in the dorms. I think every student needs a private room where she or he can lock the door. We are counting on the colleges to vet our kids’ roommates and dorm mates. So far, I’m not too impressed.</p>
<p>poetgrl:</p>
<p>Thankyou.</p>
<p>My wife and I are within driving distance (35 miles) of the campus. Her parents live about 300 miles away.</p>
<p>All wise suggestions and have been part of our discussion. I was aware of the “start to Thanksgiving” time period as being especially rife and we talked about it.</p>
<p>I also suggested that she “ask around” the other girls in the freshman (and some soph) dorm if some guy wanted to get together in less than a group environment. All the “old geezerettes” (her mother, my wives), swear that in the late 1960s and early 1970s, there was an “early warning system” among the females that let you at least have an idea if a guy had a reputation. Is that still around?</p>
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<p>I’d expand that to befriending and “asking around” of women who are juniors and seniors as they’re likely to have more experiences with the social dynamics of the campus due to their being on campus longer.</p>
<p>Where my niece attends, after the soph year there are no spots in the dorms. </p>
<p>thanks, cobrat- if “social dynamics” is the same thing as which EC-clubs and social organizations have a reputation for risky parties/members, that has already been covered.</p>
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<p>Seek out the wisdom of the SWUGs :)</p>