Sense of Entitlement

<p>College grads feel that they DESERVE a well-paying job. Where does this originate from? It is because we were all told their parents, aunts, uncles, and other elders that a college degree is our ticket to success in life?</p>

<p>This is the reason why many students get frustrated that they spent 4 years of their life, take out a 100k loan, only to get a job that pays 35k.</p>

<p>Should we still be telling our kids that college is required for success? Many students still believe that it is okay to take out 100k+ for college because they believe the degree would pay of itself. </p>

<p>College is no longer guaranteed ticket to the middle class anymore like it used to be. The students shouldn't be lied too. This sense of entitlement needs to go.</p>

<p>We still should be telling our kids that in most instances, college is required for success. But we should also be telling them that it is no guarantee of success. Therefore, taking out a large loan for college is unwise.</p>

<p>But it's not just the student's sense of entitlement that is the problem here. Where were the parents when their child was borrowing 100K or more? Shouldn't the parents have been advising the student that it might be difficult to pay back such a large loan, and that the student might want to consider less expensive educational options (such as two years at a community college followed by transfer to a state university) instead?</p>

<p>We strongly urged S to attend his second-choice, in-state school for this very reason. He was accepted to the OOS flagship he wanted, but he would have had debt up the ying-yang, and their program in his major was not as good. When we were doing the on-line paperwork for his student loans, I pointed out to him on the repayment schedule what kind of payments he'd have to make if he borrowed for the other school. As it is, he got grants and scholarships he could only use in-state and will probably graduate without too much debt.</p>

<p>I tell my kids that what is necessary to succeed in life is integrity, hard work, perseverance, and knowledge...in that order! Knowledge can be gained fairly quickly, the others can take longer for people to develop if they haven't been raised that way (and these days it seems many have not). The people that assume that doors are going to open for them simply because they have the parchment from a name-brand U are setting themselves up for disappointment...but some people always have to learn the hard way.</p>

<p>As far as the mega-loans go, it's the same thing as driving more car than you can afford to maintain, or buying a home that you can't afford to furnish - makes no sense to me and seems to be a sign of insecurity. Perhaps they learn self-worth and gain wisdom by pulling themselves out of the hole that they dug. Yes, the parents should have been advising them against it, but often the problem is hereditary! I've tried to reason with parents and students who ask me for advise on loans (usually what to do when the parents have bad credit or are denied), and even show them what the debt would do to them, but they generally will not be dissuaded...check out the FA forum as this is a common discussion!</p>

<p>I think that the attitude of only taking a "good" job will hurt them in the long run. You can learn many things from a job that pays "only" 35k, and these may help prepare for the next "better" position. However, no job or marketable skills equals not much to add to the resume. </p>

<p>As to the big loans, I think some of the students may not have parents that can advise them adequately. If I transposed my own life into today, my parents would not have had a clue as to what potential a college degree offered in reality. My dad never graduated HS, and both were low paid workers without college degrees. They contributed little money to my education, and certainly did not warn about the burden of large student loans. They were not the kind of people who took on a lot of debt - no credit card debt and just a home mortgage (which was always a struggle to them).</p>

<p>Students need to be better informed before they sign up of these loans, and they need to be feel less entitled to a "designer" education if they can only pay with borrowed money.</p>

<p>I think that where they feel entitled is to the school of their dreams. Nobody needs a school where you have to borrow 100K. What ever happened to planning ahead, saving for college, and going where you could afford to go?</p>

<p>Deliberately entering into a chronic state of indebtedness and living beyond one's means is more demonstrative of naive and reckless behavior to me, than it is of entitlement.</p>

<p>Following, is an example of entitlement... and I blame the parents (my sister and BIL) for being enablers.</p>

<p>I have a nephew who received full academic scholarship to Univ of OK and OSU where his family currently lives. He wanted to go to school on the east coast... so his parents paid for him to go to BC. He graduated last spring and just finished up his first year of Law School at Duke... also on his parents' tab. </p>

<p>If he were my child, he would have been coached/encouraged to accept the kind offers from OK for a free undergrad degree... and to then apply to grad school on the east coast! </p>

<p>My sister and BIL are making this happen for him (and two other siblings - one currently working on PHD, another just finished up his frosh year of undergrad), but they are leveraging their own assets to do so.... at age 55-60. They are both physicians who just finished paying off their own student loans 15/ years ago. They are in research - not private practice.... so they are killing themselves to make all this happen.</p>

<p>The new grads need to realize that they will be starting at the bottom and need to work their way up. They need to work hard and keep learning. You don't just start out at 22 or 23 with a great paying job with all of the perks and title, etc. As I parent I have tried to communicate this to my kids. I hope they get it.</p>

<p>We had an interesting week this week. Son heads off to college at big state U this fall, and we toured his dorm this week for the first time. He said looking at the dorm room was humbling. No big suburban house where he can lounge in his room, or in the kitchen, or in the basement. College is great, there are SO many opportunities, but face it, "home" is pretty small. I think this transition to college the first year is a good first step in shaking some of that sense of entitlement.</p>

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think that where they feel entitled is to the school of their dreams. Nobody needs a school where you have to borrow 100K. What ever happened to planning ahead, saving for college, and going where you could afford to go?

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<p>I live in a generally upper middle class area where that is indeed the prevailing notion. The smart choice is to go the state flagship, or even go to CC for 2 years and transfer to state flagship. On one hand, I get annoyed by the lack of larger horizons; on the other hand, maybe they <em>are</em> the more sophisticated thinkers compared to the prevailing east-coast CC mentality that it's worth going into huge debt for college.</p>

<p>As for college, I don't preach that college is necessary for success, but I do preach that getting education and training in your chosen field is necessary for success. If I wanted to be a diesel mechanic I wouldn't go to a university and if I wanted to be a doctor I can't get it just volunteering at a hospital. Different interests require different paths.</p>

<p>Honestly, I still scratch my head when I hear that someone is going to college to be a photographer or an actor because I think real world experience is what is needed for these interests. Oh well.</p>

<p>Agreed.</p>

<p>It's about who you know.</p>

<p>It's about how badly you are willing to work to get ahead.</p>

<p>It's about putting yourself out there and being noticed.</p>

<p>It's about taking chances.</p>

<p>It's about educating yourself and keeping up to date.</p>

<p>It's a new world out there, folks. It doesn't necessarily have to be done with a four year degree.</p>

<p>Whenever anybody considers not going or postponing college, or dropping our for financial reasons, they are bombarded with BUT YOU NEED A DEGREE OR YOU'LL FAIL AT LIFE. I was considering dropping out now before my debt load becomes unmanageable and getting training to be a k9 trainer instead, and was told that my "brilliant mind" would be wasted on animals and it would be the worst mistake of my life if I didn't go to school. It's pretty easy for me to see how people make the mistake of thinking they will be better off with a degree than without, even if in some cases that isn't true. Nobody insisting otherwise will shut up long enough for another idea to get across.</p>

<p>By the time I got to a university I knew the job market was such that a job was not guaranteed, and I never expected to be paid much given my field, but I did have the expectation that a degree would increase my upward mobility. I guess I don't know if that's true. In the field that I ultimately ended up deciding I wanted, which is two chosen fields after the one I picked when I started school, I am pretty sure a degree isn't going to make much difference at all. Oops.</p>

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He said looking at the dorm room was humbling. No big suburban house where he can lounge in his room, or in the kitchen, or in the basement.

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<p>Most modern residence halls have kitchens, study rooms, and TV lounges, and even students who live in older residence halls can find some amenities, including quiet places to study, either in their buildings or in nearby student centers/unions/libraries/dining hall buildings. </p>

<p>Dorm rooms themselves often are a bit cramped, especially for today's students, who almost always bring their own computers and perhaps other electronic equipment as well. But you don't live exclusively in your dorm room; you live on the whole campus. And the facilities there are usually extensive.</p>

<p>Today our local paper ran a big article about HS grads not changing their major because of the job market, and not caring about making money in their careers. They all want to "follow their dream". Yet in 4 years, how many of them will be crying that they can't find a job? There is something to be said for realistic expectations.</p>

<p>Of course they feel they are entitled to a decent job. That has been the rant many of them have heard for years: "Go to college, to a good college, finish college, get that degree, so that you can get a good job." What do you think they are going to think and feel?</p>

<p>I think they can read: "According to the U.S. Census Bureau, Current Population Surveys, March 1998, 1999, and 2000, the average salary of someone with a high school diploma is $30,400 while the average salary of someone with a Bachelor's Degree is $52,200." [admittedly old data but, I believe, still valid]</p>

<p>For many people it really does make sense to go to college. To say otherwise is shortsighted. However, to believe that $100K in loans is OK, or that they deserve a salary out of proportion with their education/experience IS a sense of entitlement and it is the problem of the student. I actually interviewed a student in the MBA program at Emory who had NO experience who asked for >$100K salary. Yeesh.</p>

<p>"Should we still be telling our kids that college is required for success?"</p>

<p>You used the pronoun "we." If you don't believe so, stop it. </p>

<p>The deal though is, how well is anyone going to do without a college degree? Not very well. And as soon as a certificate in HVAC becomes the norm, people won't get jobs there either (and now they really don't get good jobs, they get some job). A college degree doesn't guarantee anything (especially if you study underwater basket weaving), but it's still your best shot.</p>

<p>For people with literally zero money for college, it makes much more sense not to go to college as a young adult and find something else to do until they can save. I'd rather make 15k a year and be debt free than make 30k a year and have 50k in debt.</p>

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Honestly, I still scratch my head when I hear that someone is going to college to be a photographer or an actor because I think real world experience is what is needed for these interests. Oh well.

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<p>I went to a college that has one of the top theater programs in the country - kids graduating from this school have access to an incredible network on both coasts. Why wouldn't that be of a benefit to an aspiring actor / actress?</p>