Separate these schools into reaches/matches!

Chance Me / Match Me
1

Hey guys,

I’m not going to pretend that I haven’t accomplished much in high school. However, I do think I may be ‘spread a little too thin’ for the top schools, as my ECs do jump around a lot. I’m trying to really cut down on my college list (I don’t want to apply to more than 12 schools, with 2 being safeties) so please let me know which (if any) I should stop considering now, and also which are reaches/matches. Thanks!

SCHOOLS
Early Action: Princeton, UVA (99% sure I am going this route)
Regular Decision (in order of preference): Harvard, Penn, Yale, Columbia, Northwestern, Georgetown, Dartmouth, Johns Hopkins, Vanderbilt; not including safeties

White upper-middle class male (not applying for FA) with no hooks (except my dad went to Columbia for business school). Dad has an MBA and mom grew up in Europe, never went to college. Attends a private high school in PA.

ACADEMICS
GPA: 3.98 out of 4.0 (unweighted) | 4.3 out of 4.6 (weighted)
SAT (old, took twice): 2290 (740 CR, 750 M, 800 WR, Essay 11)
First time: 2200 (720 CR, 680 M, 800 WR, Essay 10)
Subject Tests: Math II (750, retaking), Physics (October 2016), Literature (October 2016)
PSAT (new) : 1480 (730 M, 750 CR/WR)
AP: Took 1 class, but 5 tests so far: AP European History (5), AP World History (5), AP English Lit & Comp (5), AP English Lang & Comp (5), Microeconomics (5)

Senior Classes:
AP Mandarin
AP Calculus BC
AP Physics (covers material for 1 & 2 tests)
US History
Accelerated British Literature
Select Choral Group
Genocide (1st sem, religion requirement)
*AP Macro doesn’t fit into my schedule but I will be taking the test.

AWARDS
AP Scholar w/ Distinction
National Chinese & English Honor Society
Best Witness (MT), 2x consecutively in competition
Cum Laude (top 10% of class academically)
National Merit Scholar Semi-Finalist (assuming since I got 1480/1520; if not, I will put 2nd place in Public Speaking at the FBLA regional level)

EXTRACURRICULARS

  1. A Capella Group Co-President (member 9-12, president 12)
  2. PMEA All-State Vocalist (11) (Ranked 4th in the Philadelphia area for Tenor) - Ranked 12th as a sophomore
  3. 1st Team Mock Trial Expert Witness (10-12) / Mock Trial Board Member (12)
  4. Winter Track Co-Captain (12), Varsity Spring Track (9-10) - 6 Varsity Letters total
  5. Paid internship @ the fastest-growing business in the Philadelphia area (according to Inc 5000)
    Job Description: conducted interviews resulting in 25+ freelancer hires, researched competitors, received calls from clients (summer before 12th)
  6. Studied in China for a 3 week foreign exchange program; lived with a Chinese host family, attended poetry, physics, and chemistry classes that were conducted entirely in Mandarin (summer before 11th)
  7. Theatre Board (Theatre student leaders; run rehearsals, & volunteer to help middle school theatre program) (11-12)
  8. Ran a fundraiser in my backyard for the local theatre; 20+ acts including a former broadway star, raised $2,700; 6 week unpaid internship there that summer as well (summer before 10th)
  9. Founded a club that travels to Philly once a month, jams out on the streets, and hands out flyers for a charity that gives underprivileged kids music classes (late 11 through 12)
  10. Don’t know if I should include this Built, configured, & marketed a medium-sized multiplayer Minecraft server; profited $4,250 in two months selling virtual items; averaged 40 players online at once (summer before 10th)

ESSAYS/RECOMMENDATIONS
Common App Essay - pretty strong, chose the learning from failure option. I tried to organize an open-mic style fundraiser but procrastinated and was too scared of failing/being judged to make it work. Talked about what I learned and how I have applied that knowledge in my future endeavors.

Rec #1 - AP Euro teacher. She’s loved me since she watched me in the musicals in MS. Got an A+ in the class, never slacked off, always answered questions even if I was unsure. Apparently, she approached my GC & ranted (positively) about me for 30 minutes. Expecting 10/10 rec.

Rec #2 - Lit teacher. Didn’t participate much in class, but judging from her comments on my essays, she considers me super smart & interesting. Also writes 40+ recs per year and loves doing it, and writes so eloquently that it sort of hurts inside. I think it will be an 8/10 rec.

Additional Rec - 2 choices:
My immediate superior @ the language services company from this summer. She really likes me & was amazed at how much work I could manage, but is really busy and has only known me 2 months. I think it will be around a 7/10 rec.
OR
The executive director of the local theater I acted at/fundraised for/interned at. It isn’t “about me” but it would certainly shed some more light on how much work the event took (he talks about me calling him up with the idea, organizing & running meetings, contacting potential performers, etc.). It is only around 150 words long.

ADDITIONAL INFO
Instead of submitting an official resume to schools that allow a resume, can I send in my professional acting resume? I’ve done 15+ shows outside of school, but the vast majority were before high school. In 5th grade, I starred in a show at one of the largest theatres in Philadelphia, so I do think it would be worthwhile to submit it if I can.

I also may consider an arts supplement, either of me singing choir songs a capella or performing original songs on my acoustic guitar & singing (it’s a hobby of mine). Would this make any sense?

2

All the schools you have listed are reaches IMO (maybe a couple could be considered low reaches). They are for pretty much everyone.

What else do you have on your list? You need some solid safeties and matches.

3

@doschicos Thanks for the feedback! I know not to put too much faith into getting into any of the schools, I listed, but if I apply to all of them and put lots of work into each supplement I’m sure to get in 2-3, right? :wink: In terms of matches/safeties, I’m also thinking Oberlin, Wake Forest, & Vassar College. If you have any other suggestions please let me know!

4

One would hope you could get into at least one of the schools you’ve listed but there are no guarantees. Applying to more reaches doesn’t increase the odds of getting into any one of them - they are all independent decisions, right? To think otherwise is a false logic.

I’d put Oberlin, Wake Forest, and Vassar in matches group, not safeties. What does your college counselor say? I assume since you go to a private school that your college counseling department is somewhat decent?

What are your areas of academic interest? What are you considering majoring in?

Your schools seem a little all over the map. Columbia is very different from Dartmouth. Oberlin and Vassar are very different from Wake Forest and UVA. What type of college appeals to you? Location, student body, vibe, size?

5

It appears that you are looking for prestige rather than a good fit for you.

6

Princeton, Harvard, Yale, Columbia - you have the stats for a potential admission, but the Ivies are a reach for everyone. Dartmouth and Cornell would be the safer bets, lower reaches, if you really want to attend an Ivy.
UVA - Match. You should get in, but they can be a challenge too, depending on the # of in-state applicants in any individual year.
Northwestern - Match/Low-Reach
Georgetown - High Match. You should get in.
Johns Hopkins - High Match. You should get in.
Vanderbilt - Reach

Others to consider: Emory, Duke, Carnegie Melon, Rice, Amherst, Williams.

I would have at least 3 solid safeties in your mix. Maybe 5 Reaches, 5 Matches and 3 Safeties.

Good Luck…

7

@doschicos Yes, they are independent decisions, but what I’ve read is that many of the top colleges have way too many qualified applicants, meaning that each decision is basically a crapshoot once you are qualified. This is further shown by admissions staff at selective universities who say that sometimes they just don’t raise their hands and don’t know why, even though the students are qualified (there’s a few videos about this on YouTube). Do you sort of see what I’m saying? If I apply to 2 highly selective colleges that I’m qualified for, I might just get unlucky both times. If I apply to 8 of them, the chances of me missing out on all 8 diminishes.

I’m going to be honest with you; I really have no idea what I want to study. I love exploring new cultures, speaking different languages (I know conversational German & Spanish as well as intermediate-level Mandarin), and performing in front of big audiences, whether it be vocal, theatrical, or just public speaking. I don’t know of a fairy-tale job that fits that description and brings in a 6 figure salary, though… I’m also considering computer science, as I had a ton of fun toying with the plugins on my minecraft server… I don’t know. Basically anything that isn’t super science based, besides CompSci, if I want to become a software engineer. But I don’t see the point in picking a school based on one specific program that’s good, because around 70% of college students switch their major while in college and I just have a feeling that’s going to be me.

I would prefer a smaller student body (as you can see, most of my schools are smaller), but when I visited UVA I realized that I would be willing to give this up as I really did enjoy the ‘vibe’ of the school. I’m really not too particular about location, as long as it’s within driving distance (8 hours I would say) of my home. I really enjoyed Princeton, UVA, & Notre Dame because I got a real college feel from them, like I was inside a bubble that contained a really close-knit community; I guess you could say I prefer small town to city, but then again, lots of opportunities and places to explore in a big city, so I don’t really know.

Thanks for taking the time to help me out. Do you have any suggestions for safety schools I should be looking at? (East Coast, preferably smaller, and close to a major city but not in one). Thanks!

8

Davison College fits that description very well!

9

@TomSrOfBoston To be honest, you’re right, prestige is pretty important to me. I’ve been working my butt off the last few years, and have really put myself out there on multiple occasions. I’ve learned valuable life lessons along the way, and will always cherish the experiences I’ve had and friends I’ve made as I pursued the various things that I listed above. That is true regardless of what college I go to. However, I do believe that the prospect of going somewhere prestigious has been a motivator in the back of my mind since sophomore year, and for some reason I just feel like I “have” to go somewhere like that.

Also, my environment plays a huge role in this notion that I have to go somewhere prestigious or I will have “failed.” My parents pay a LOT of money and make a LOT of sacrifices each year so that I can go to the school I go to. Many of my friends are in ivy league schools, and were accepted to more than one. Like I said in my post above, location does not matter much to me, as long as it’s on the east coast. Size doesn’t even matter that much, as I still enjoyed UVA when I actually visited. I believe that the “right fit for me” will be a place where there are lots of kids who also kicked butt in high school and want to continue to kick butt so that their lives can kick butt. From what I’ve read and heard from friends, these kids tend to gather at… well, the most prestigious universities. Thoughts?

10

@WWWard Thank you for your honest opinion & suggestions. I will try to incorporate 3 good safeties. I will definitely look into the others that you listed!

@goblue8721 Looking at the website/admitted student profile now. It looks like a solid match (I’m right at about the 75th percentile for SAT). Thanks!

11

For a safety, take a look at Dickinson. Very international focus, good merit aid, nice campus. Davidson is a great school but I would consider it a match not a safety even though your stats are strong.

I think its perfectly fine to be undecided on major. To me, that’s what the first year or two of college are about. Take different classes (many in areas of study not available in high school) and then you can decide.

Every year there are plenty of kids who don’t get into ANY of their reaches. My suggestion to you would be to pare back on your reaches by a few and add more safeties and matches that you like. If you only want to apply to 12 total, if you were my child, I’d recommend 2 safeties (unless you are applying to one where you know you would be an automatic admit based on stats), 3 matches, and the rest reaches.

Focusing on the east coast, here are a few other schools you should take a look at for safety/match options:

Emory
Wake Forest
University of Richmond
George Washington or American (since you like Georgetown plus DC is a fun city and gives you that international/cultural vibe you like)

Also, take a look at Macalester. It’s in St. Paul, MN but on a nice campus in a nice part of the city, strong international focus.

For your safeties and matches, make sure you “show the love” to schools that consider Demonstrated Interest as part of the admissions process. You can google “Common Data Set” and the school’s name and check section C of the Common Data Set (CDS) to see if it is something they consider. For example, here’s link to the CDS for Wake Forest. It states that Demonstrated Interest is considered. It’s not supposedly for Vassar. There’s lots of other good data in the CDS as well worth looking at.

http://ir.wfu.edu/files/CDS_2015-2016.pdf

12

Because you have not been on CC long, you have not seen the posts every year of incredibly qualified students who apply to a dozen top schools and put little to no thought into their safeties (if they even apply to any)… and get shut out by the top schools.

A genuine safety school is not only one that you have an extremely high likelihood of getting accepted to and being able to afford - it’s important that should it wind up being your only option, you would actually be fine with attending.

@doschicos has made some great suggestions. I also suggest you take a look back through the results threads from last year for the schools on your current list. You may be shocked to see some of the stats and achievements of kids who didn’t get in.

13

@doschicos Thank you for introducing me to Dickinson - I appreciate the 42% male / 58% female population :wink: In all seriousness, I am looking into it and will consider it as a safety school. International focus is great; I originally wanted to study international business but I’ve heard that the degree is very general and not particularly useful.

I will make sure to take a wide range of classes during my first year so I can decide what’s right for me. I like the 2 safeties, 3 matches, and the rest reaches idea. I will talk with my GC about it. I’ll also spend a good amount of time reading up on the other colleges you mentioned, and I’ll certainly take “demonstrated interest” into consideration; thanks for the tip!

@thermom Thank you for putting things into perspective. I was actually looking at the Princeton 2020 thread yesterday and it made me kind of scared, so I’m starting to really grasp what you mean. I will certainly put more thought into schools that aren’t “big names.” That being said, you do consider me ‘qualified’ for the top schools right? As in it wouldn’t be a waste of my time to apply to a few of them? Thanks.

14

You’re welcome.

I echo the be careful mantra though. In 2013-14, my daughter applied to a whopping 17 colleges out of an abundance of caution… 4 safeties, 4 matches, 3 low reaches and 6 high reaches, but she was ultimately rejected by 12 out of the 17 schools. She was only accepted to her 4 safeties and one match.

So assume nothing and leave yourself options. Just keep in mind that when an elite college accepts 5-9%, they are also then rejecting 91-95% of all applicants. And many of those applicants had good reason to believe that they would be accepted too. But with so many seniors applying to 10 or more schools and each elite school receiving 25K+ applications, the chances of securing that coveted “golden ticket” keep going down.

Good luck…

15

@gmanhax Yes, I think you appear to be a strong candidate and it’s worth applying to any programs you’re interested in - especially if cost doesn’t seem to be an issue for your parents. I’m only trying to echo the others who are encouraging you to broaden your search a bit to increase your likelihood of a happy outcome.

Where smart/talented kids sometimes get into trouble is in not really paying attention to their safety options because they assume they’ll never have to “resort” to them, and then they’re devastated when they get denied at all the tippy tops and the only thing they’re left with is a school they only applied to because some nagging adults told them they had to have a safety.

Good advice I received for my own D’s search is: what are the characteristics of the various reach schools you’re the most fond of? Try to find schools with similar characteristics a couple of selectivity tiers down and consider them for match & safety options. There are plenty of very smart, very capable kids at schools 1-2 tiers down from Princeton, I assure you. :wink: If your match & safety schools encompass many of the characteristics you like about your top picks, then if you do wind up attending there, at least it will be something you can feel okay (and hopefully even good!) about.

16

And remember that the low acceptance rates at your reaches factor in kids who are getting in due to a variety of hooks and advantages - athletes, development cases, legacies, minority students, world champions of this or that, musical virtuosos. Your stats are great but you don’t fit any of the previous niches. So, those matches and safeties are important. :slight_smile:

17

@WWWard Thank you for the (much needed) caution. It’s crazy how much my mindset has already changed since posting this thread. I am sorry about your daughter, but I’m sure she’s doing excellent wherever she is if she was raised by someone with as sound advice as yourself!

I understand that the admit rates are super low. Ridiculously low. I’m not going in with huge expectations anymore, and I’m going to take a lot of extra time to explore colleges that I hadn’t thought of due to my stupid ego.

18

@gmanhax Your openness to revisiting your list and keeping an open mind will serve you well not only in the admissions process but in life in general. Kudos to you!

19

@doschicos Thank you! It just sort of dawned on me that it really isn’t all that important whether the school I go to is #1 or #30, or even #50. After hearing responses from you and others, my college list is at about 20. I’m going to try to wheedle it down to about 12-15 (with 2 safeties and 4 matches) in the next week or so.

I talked about my concerns regarding the admissions process with my father today, actually. He works at an extremely large investment banking firm and says that he has often offered a job to the intern from Drexel over the intern from Penn due to various factors. I’ve read online about how much employers care about which school their job applicants went to, and it is a lot less than I had previously thought (seems like the 1st job is the only one that really cares; after that, it’s all about previous work experience). Also considering that ultimately, I would like to be self-employed (an entrepreneur), it really does not matter as much as I previously thought.

Darn private schools creating a cutthroat environment and making me think like college is the last step in life… :frowning:

20

You’re welcome. In our case, my daughter ended up at USC and is very happy. Initially, USC was likely 3rd or 4th on her initial list, behind Stanford, Yale and Brown (possibly Princeton), but now she cannot imagine herself being anywhere else. In fact, my younger daughter now has USC ranked as her top choice. Let us all know where you end up…