Serious Advice Needed

cptofthehouse · May 7, 2012, 9:28pm

If the problem is with the OP and his wife, all the education and training in the world will not net jobs. However, getting training in some field where there is a shortage of those with that specialization will improve their odds. I don’t think psychology is a good field to pursue.

They have been living with those who have needed their medical care and have been doing volunteer work. The problem with doing these things is that you gotta have an eye out for keeping your job marketability up there too, and that is something the OP and wife did not do.

kelsmom · May 7, 2012, 10:20pm

As second bachelor students, you and your wife would not be eligible for grants … no Pell, no SEOG, and generally no institutional grants. You would each be eligible for up to $9500 in Stafford loans as freshmen, $10,500 as sophomores, and $12,500 as juniors/seniors. That is all that is guaranteed, and most likely all that is available.

If you were to work on masters degrees, you would each be eligible for up to $20,500 per year in Stafford loans. That is usually it for financial aid.

Does OH have programs for dislocated workers? MI has a program intended to assist people like you & your wife in retraining for the future. It pays for college classes. OH might have something similar - you might want to do some research.

Community colleges have a lot of excellent certificate programs that will lead to careers in areas that have jobs … at a low cost. I would suggest making an appointment with a career counselor at a CC or at a state jobs center (if your state has them) … find out your strengths & what programs might be a good fit and pay off in a job in the relatively near future.

kelsmom · May 7, 2012, 10:23pm

BTW, I do feel bad for your situation. I had a hard time finding work after staying home with my kids for almost 20 years. I still make a lot less than I ought to (in my opinion, anyway) - but it is a lot more than nothing, so I deal with it.

AHSTeacher · May 7, 2012, 10:38pm

Perhaps a CNA certificate would be the most expedient way to employment? It can be gotten in 75 hours contact time with a certification test. This would lead to full time employment for both of you. With your experience, you both should be good candidates for jobs at nursing homes. Because it’s a certificate program, financial aid cannot cover it. Total cost should be no more than $500-$600. All community colleges offer the CNA. Because of your circumstances a state program may pay for the tuition. Go to your local community college to find out.

After you get on your feet, then check out additional schooling.

All previous financial advice has been outstanding.

cptofthehouse · May 8, 2012, 8:23am

Since the wife does not have her bachelors, the PELL is possible in her case. That and subsidized Staffords can be a good option and can pay for some courses and living expenses. She should look at a directed job program at a local community college. I’ve known a number of kids who went to some top colleges and could not get self subsisting jobs, and found that getting some courses in Medical billing or other direct skill got them in the door in positions that paid a bit more, and then once with a job, the BA allowed the to expand on it.

thumper1 · May 8, 2012, 8:33am

How will this couple pay both living expenses AND college costs for two unemployed people? They say they are homeless, and have no car, but then say they are living with the 85 year old mother of the husband.

I would think they need to get their living/financial arrangements in order before they decide to enroll in college.

I agree with others…a CNA would give them immediate employment in most areas of this country…assuming that this couple finds a “suitable” employer in their eyes.

cptofthehouse · May 8, 2012, 8:52am

Right now they have zero money, no car, and no place to live other than the mother’s apartment. Clearly, other than moving to a homeless shelter or finding someone they know who will take them in, they have no choice but to stay where they are until they scrounge up the money for a deposit and first month’s rent payment. Without a car, it is going to be a problem for them to even get to school or a job. I don’t know how they have been getting around, as it is unless Mom has car they are using. But they have been getting groceries for Mom, taking her to the doctors, etc, etc, so they will have to use that venue until they find another. Since they did care for Mom when she needed it, she can certainly let them stay until they get on their feet, but given the circumstances of a small residence, they need to get out of there. WIthout any money, like zero $$$s, they aren’t going to get any living/financial arrangements in order without getting a job, and then a pay check, for starters.

If the wife can find a good solid program at a community or other state college that has good DIRECTED employment prospects, she can get PELL, Staffords, that will give them a small windfall for living expenses, a jump start out of Mom’s apartment. The funds will not be available until she is accepted to school, enrolled in school, all applications for aid and promissory notes signed, and the school has taken their cut, but there would likely be some funds for living expenses in there if there is indeed a zero EFC and she has not taken out other federal loans and monies for college and she does not have a Bachelors yet. They would be allowed as much as what the college COA is for commuting up to the max Staffords and PELL. It would be disbursed on a half year basis. With some of those funds, the OP can then enroll in a certificate course that would make him more employable and maybe get a junker of a car that can just get them to where ever they have to go.

However, just from the posts, I think the OP is going to have to do some major attitude adjustment to get and keep a job. We all have to “suffer the indignities” of lowering ourselves to the mainstream standards if we want to eat, have a roof over our heads and have some money. The OP and wife do not sound like they should be unemployable as they are right now. If the problem is with them, all the degrees, training and certificates are not going to get them jobs.

lerkin · May 8, 2012, 10:44am

First, I’d like to remind some posters here, that it is easy to judge someone’s attitude of frustration if you have never been in their shoes. While I do not necessary have the direct experience like OP does, I witnessed my parents having to reinvent themselves when they were 42 and 47 respectively. They were kind of in the same shoes as OP (but not the same), as they did not have any work experience in the US and no work references (because they were immigrants). At times, it was frustrating and they would whine and complain. It did not mean they were picky in their job search, it just meant they were frustrated. Also, it is hard to even get minimum wage job if you don’t have work experience. Everyone in my family, including me, had to use some kind of connection/community resource, to get their first job.

Second, since people here picked on OP’s attitude, my hunch is that it shows during interview and my advice to the OP is to try check it (no matter how degrading you feel the process is).

Also, I contacted the poster mini (not mimi, sorry) and asked them to PM you regarding your options in farm work. If it works out, which I doubt because I believe the work is on East Coast and you need to physically get there, it might be short term solution to put aside some money while looking for permanent solution. Also, if one needs to stay behind to help your mom, then another needs to go and work on the farm to earn some money.

I also would like share the experience my parents had to go through to establish themselves in this country at about the same age as OP is right now. Maybe OP can get some pointers from that. Both of my parents have engineering degree and held pretty high positions in my home country. None of this mattered in the US. My mother went to community college to get some kind of certification in accounting. Through doing well in classes, she was able to get teachers to help her find jobs. My mom’s spoken English is atrocious, even almost 20 years later I cringe when she speaks English, so without the help of her teachers she would not be able to get her foot in the door. Her first job was to sell watches at little kiosk in a local mall. Because of her hard work, she was eventually promoted to be a manager of that kiosk. When she finally obtained her accounting certificate, another teacher helped her get an entry level accounting job. She eventually got Associates Degree, switched jobs and obtained MBA (paid through tuition reimbursement by her employer) in accounting. She was working full time and went to school part time. She was able to do that because she already has Bachelors degree in Engineering. She now has a decent job at a decent wage. She does not make as much as she could have if she was native speaker and not so old getting into the game, but it is OK. She has a steady job.

My dad, just like you, was lied by one “employer”, who used my dad’s skills in the start-up without paying my dad any money. My dad’s first paying job was through a temp agency. He had an assembly job at $6 per hour for couple of years. All these years he sent and sent resumes everywhere he saw fit. For the past 15 years he has a good job, where he is valued because of his engineering background. He is not an engineer, he is a technician who works on a highly complicated equipment, which requires knowledge of Physics. He is always the first one to get called for over time by other shift managers because of his knowledge.

My dad is planning to work until he is either 70 or 72 (he wants to retire when my mom retires). They put maximum amount into 401K/IRA and are trying to maximize social security benefits. They achieved all of this without going into (student loan) debt. They will be OK when the retire.

What I am trying to say, is do not give up. My dad had to do this when he was older than you are (and did not have language skills you have). Follow advice on this board regarding resources you might use. Also, even if you are not religious, join a church and volunteer there. First, this work might give your references. Second, you might pick up a student or two to tutor in English. Third, you might develop connections. Good luck.

DBanner1 · May 8, 2012, 3:31pm

I will add some information here, so as to perhaps clear up some misunderstandings. My dad passed away in November of 2004 and I was blessed to meet my wife a month later. Her dad passed away in March of 2005. Her mom passed away in June of 2006. Her brother passed away (colon cancer) in June of 2007. My brother passed away (heart attack) in May of 2008. We had auctioned my dad’s estate in 2005, so there were some funds generated from that. (My parents were divorced.) My wife had a very modest house that had been basically the only settlement from an ex-husband. Our thought had been to live there because of less upkeep expenses than the 6 acres and 3 old buildings that my dad had. Further complicating that was my wife’s sister who at the time was having marital problems and had nowhere to go. For a while, we land contracted the house to her and we moved into a small mobile home. And we were constantly job hunting at the same time. Plus helping out as much as we could with all of those funeral bills in 5 consecutive years.

Any frustration(s) that might come across here does not translate to the same coming out in employment interviews, etc. Long ago I learned how to ‘play it close to the vest’ such that reactions do not have their tells in body language, facial expressions, etc. I feel that it is just the basic fact that job interviews, to a greater or lesser extent depending on the employer, are like ballets much more so today than they were in decades past. Some people say they are like a game. I feel that is too suggestive of malice on the part of employers. I think what’s at the heart of it is simply level of competition. I do feel that some employers go to extremes in their attempts at fact-finding in regard to employee candidates.

Let me give you a clearer picture of some jobs that we have had. We worked for the owner of a motel. I was the maintenance manager and my wife was the office manager. At first, it seemed ideal. I was working to maintain not only the 21-unit motel, but also a rental duplex that belonged to the owner, and also his personal home and property. I really enjoyed it. There was plenty of varied work both inside and outside and it was much like what I had done for my dad and his property. After a couple of weeks, things started to spiral downward. A guest in one of the motel units had to go to the local hospital because he was covered from head to toe in bedbug bites. It was actually the worst case that the hospital had ever seen. The motel owner blamed the whole thing on the guest and claimed that he had brought them in with him. The local health department sent a representative out to investigate the situation. He spoke to the owner and then he spoke with my wife and I out of the owner’s presence. What he said to us was very illuminating. The owner had attempted to claim that this was the first bed bug infestation at his motel. The man from the health department told us that it was an every-year situation. The problem was the owner’s idea of…‘thrift.’ Mind you, this was an owner who was in no way hurting for lack of funds. He was having my wife manage not only the business, but also his personal finances, so she was aware of his net worth. Things began to fall into place in our minds, because up to that point there had been more and more of his practices and procedures, or lack thereof, that had begun to add up and raise some questions. Necessary cleaning supplies that he did not want to purchase, smoke detectors whose batteries needed to be replaced that he did not want to buy, etc. The longer we were there, the more that we became aware of along those lines. Here is one specific example of how bad things became, near the end of our employment: There was a day when he and I were returning to the motel from having done some work at his home. (Approximately 20 miles between the two.) Along the way, someone had set out a queen-size mattress with a sign that said ‘free.’ The mattress was just leaning against a pole. It was not wrapped and looked as if it had been out in the weather for a few days. It was also stained with what looked like various bodily fluids. He wanted it for the motel. I strongly advised against it. He had us load it into his minivan and bring it back with us. Inside, I was extremely disgusted but I didn’t let it show. Upon our return, I suggested that at the very least, it should be sprayed with Lysol disinfectant. He said no…a few whacks with a broom to knock the dust out would do just fine. That was the new replacement for another mattress that had been so old and dilapidated that there were springs sticking out in various places and the complaints from guests just would not stop. That was his solution and he was very happy that such a fortuitous occasion had come along. We were gone not long after that. He expected us to lie to the health department, the village code enforcement officer, and various other agencies. We flat out refused to do that.

My wife and I are not complainers at all. We tried our very best to keep our jobs. I was up at the top of a 20’ ladder in November in considerable wind and temperature of 47 degrees painting his house, because that is when he wanted it done. I didn’t say a word about that, but simply adapted myself to it and quietly did my work. But when you are required to make false statements to authorities just to keep your job, that can not stand.

It’s that sort who will hire anyone, because no one is willing to stay under such conditions. And that is the kind of thing that we have encountered.

That guy manages to just squeak past the law. He may have some connections somewhere. His motel consistently gets the worst reviews there are for filth. How does he stay in business? There are more people in need in the town than there is housing for them. He receives vouchers from the welfare department to house homeless people. He earns $350 PER WEEK for every individual or family that he houses in his hellhole!

David

thumper1 · May 8, 2012, 4:22pm

David, I’m still confused. Inyour OP you say you either need to return to college OR face living in a homeless shelter soon. I do not see the relationship here. Are you hoping that if you both return to college you will receive sufficient funds to cover BOTH lodging and college tuition, fees, books and other related costs?

Attending college is not usually considered an income producing enterprise.

Applications for fall 2012 and the financial aid deadlines have long since passed. You certainly could enroll at a community college where enrollment is typically open enrollment with flexible deadlines for each term. However, I’m going to stick my neck out and say that your financial aid will likely cover your college tuition, fees, books, and not likely your housing, utilities, car payment, insurances, food, and other personal,expenses.

MOST college students do not receive sufficient aid to cover all costs of living.

I would suggest that you contact the community college nearest you. Inquire about programs for non traditional students. Look at what sorts of courses of study they offer.

Another idea would be to look into some kind of vocational school…there is always a need for a great plumber, auto mechanic, electricians, and the like.

In my opinion, pursuing a PhD program will simply cost you a lot of money, net you a lot of debt, delay your entry into the workforce for years, and truthfully not guarantee you a job.

cptofthehouse · May 8, 2012, 6:10pm

I’ve known people who have used college financial aid to live. Each college has a COA which includes allowance for living expenses. That COA, in addition to the cost of tuition, fees, books and supplies also has transportation, room and board expenses. These amounts though are rarely given in grants, but are for maximums in educational loans. If the OP’s wife returns to get her BA done, and if she indeed did not ever get aid, she might well be eligible for the full PELL and maximum Staffords for whatever grade level in college she is considered. That can give a bit of a jump start in finding a place, a car, supplies.

The more serious problem is the fact that the OP and his wife have not been able to stay gainfully employed. Regardless of the story, the fact of the matter is that you have to look for another job, asap the instant you smell things may not be right with the job you have. Part of the culture of staying employed is always looking for another job, always having plans and a way out if things don’t work out. It should not be a habitual thing that things sour so badly that you leave and are unemployed. If so, you have not gotten the hang of staying gainfully employed which is a survival skill in this country, these days. That skill is more important than any number of degrees and certificates, and those pieces of paper are not going to get you a job and keep you employed if you don’t get the rhythm of how it works. If the OP and wife don’t get how to live with jobs, they are getting to an age where they may be in serious trouble when they run out of relatives to nurse. As sad as that was, it does give one food, shelter and amenities as well as being around loved ones and having a virtuous thing one is doing. Not so when one is in the dog eat dog world of having a living wage and being truly independent.

OP should look for displaced workers programs in the area, and he and spouse may also be eligible for some welfare and food stamps. File taxes, if you earned any money, because the Earned Income credit will kick in and you many get a refund.

A college area might be a good place to find a room, get started and find some work. I know many who have lived in what I call the student ghetto, and they are paradises in many ways. I would live there if circumstances had been different. In a true student ghetto, there are many opportunities for culture, friendship, jobs and education at a dirt cheap price. This is something to explore. The wife’s lack of a Bachelors might buy them a foothold in there to get started.

DBanner1 · May 8, 2012, 6:19pm

Returning to college is a very recent idea that we just started to consider. Until asking questions here, we knew nothing about how student loans are actually handled. (And I thank everyone who has helped provide good information.) As I mentioned, UC Blue Ash, the college we have been considering, is transitioning from quarters to semesters and they are still rather disorganized. On their admissions page, they don’t even show what the admissions fee is. I had to put in a call to get an answer on that. It might be that they have more organizational difficulties than what is being generated by their transition, but I am trying to cut them a little slack and be as understanding as I can, even though questions addressed to their financial aid office were not answered anywhere near as effectively as one would expect from individuals who are employed in such positions.

It was more the characterization of financial aid packages from the initial information from the college than it was we ourselves just assuming that the aid packages would pay for everything. Their examples of budgeting suggested that certain amounts would go for tuition, housing, etc. It was definitely not a clear explanation of the limitations of loans and such that has been outlined much better here.

UC Blue Ash is not a community college per se, as it is a satellite of the University of Cincinnati, but the enrollment is open and the deadlines are about two months away yet. The majority of the degrees are two-year, so it is like a community college in that aspect.

My wife and I are taking in the responses here and our next step is to talk in person with someone on the UC Blue Ash campus. A lot has been said here and we appreciate it and are definitely taking it all into careful consideration.

We are considering the option of a homeless shelter in Morgantown, West Virginia, because they are more pro-active in actually helping to find people jobs than other shelters that we have investigated.

My late brother’s wife and son are about a mile away from here. They both have Ataxia. We have been trying to help them, as well, while we are here. My mother had been, up until the time of her hip surgery. And yes, it is her car that we have been using here.

The problem is that with both of them and with my mother as well there are certain mental issues that make everything that much more difficult.

Also, my wife went through a marriage that was physically abusive, a lengthy engagement to what turned out to be basically a rapist, and then a marriage to what turned out to be a pedophile. I have been the antithesis of all that for her. I also have somewhat of a perspective on what she went through emotionally, because there were times when my dad’s diabetes made him say that he wanted me dead. The pharmaceutical companies changed the type of insulin available, it was not as efficacious as what he had been on before, and it catastrophically affected his moods.

Anyhow, my mom’s issues and my nephew’s and sister-in-law’s make it such that they can not relate to what my wife went through and it causes problems of being around each other, to a certain extent.

It’s a complex situation, to be sure. I’m just trying to make the best informed decision that I can for the sake of all involved.

David

cptofthehouse · May 8, 2012, 6:28pm

At this point, David, unless you can get on your own two feet and get some kind of gainful employment, you are not going to be of any use to any of your relatives. It is important to get yourself in the best situation possible. Otherwise, you are going to end up in a homeless shelter or worse, and every nightmare you are trying to spare your wife is going to happen. You cannot let yourself continue to be distracted from getting self sufficient or the consequences can be grave. You are not that young anymore and the next 20 years go by in a flash. Without getting a handle on your own employment and self sufficiency, by that time, it will be a very bad situation.

DBanner1 · May 8, 2012, 8:57pm

What, exactly, do you think I have been trying to do, from every possible angle, all this time, except get gainful employment?

Even in the years of taking care of my father, I examined every possibility to see if anything could be worked out. There was an 84 Lumber store nearby that said they were desperate for people IN THAT STORE. The manager of the store said that. I took their exam and did exceptionally well. When I met with the regional manager, he suddenly told me that they might put me anywhere. When I told him what the store manager said, he fluffed it off and said “They all say that.” I had made it very clear right at the outset that I could not leave the area. The store manager gave me every assurance that I would be working right there in his store.

And it is a wild assumption indeed that my wife and I were not looking for other jobs while we had the ones that we did. The fact is that we WERE. Just because the one job seemed ideal at first did not mean that we were not considering back-up plans. We are ALWAYS about back-up plans.

Why do you suppose we are even considering going back to college? BECAUSE IT IS A BACK-UP PLAN! It’s not a distraction! If you hammer away at one thing and it isn’t working you have to add more ideas into the mix. A one-track mind does not help.

David

sylvan8798 · May 8, 2012, 9:07pm

Is the area you are in rural, or more urban? I have seen many many help wanted signs in just the past few weeks, which I am sure is not only the case in our city.

MisterK · May 8, 2012, 9:56pm

DBanner1 - I just wanted to mention that you’re a fairly good writer. Somewhere out there in corporate America, there’s a job for you - keep plugging away, and good luck.

skydivemom · May 8, 2012, 11:18pm

Hi David,

I’d like to reiterate the assertion that you appear to be an excellent writer - have you considered freelance writing? I’ve freelanced on the side for a number of years, and while it’s not generally lucrative, it’s a start! About dot com hires writers as “guides” to produce articles related to fields of expertise and they pay pretty well - currently, they are looking for a guide for the “Death and Dying” site for which you may be qualified based on past experiences. Briefly, here is a partial job description:

The Guide will be able to discuss all major aspects of death and dying (including the physiological, psychological and palliative care aspects) as they relate to adults and children; address the ethical issues relating to death; help caregivers deal with the stresses and challenges of caring for dying patients; provide helpful information about grieving; give an overview of funeral options (e.g., burial and cremation); and discuss the various legal issues involved at the end of life.

The Guide will:

<ul>
<li>be willing to create 8 new articles for the site each month that establish confidence in the credibility and comprehensiveness of About.coms health content</li>
<li>be an excellent writer and communicator, with a strong voice and point of view </li>
<li>be able to translate his/her expertise in a complex subject area into simple language (using layman’s terms, avoiding jargon) that reads like “the friendly authority” </li>
<li>be open and flexible to editing content based on suggestions from health editors and physician reviewers</li>
<li>possess a basic understanding of Internet use and website navigation </li>
<li>keep current with the latest news, issues and events related to death and dying </li>
<li>edit a weekly newsletter; maintain a blog </li>
<li>be willing to maintain the site’s navigation, forums, landing page, and answer user emails </li>
</ul>

SITE AUDIENCE:

The primary audiences for our site are people who are facing death, as well as their friends, family members and primary caregivers. Additionally, people who recently lost loved ones and are seeking information about death may come to our site for guidance.

The Guide will be able to discuss all major aspects of death and dying (including the physiological, psychological and palliative care aspects) as they relate to adults and children; address the ethical issues relating to death; help caregivers deal with the stresses and challenges of caring for dying patients; provide helpful information about grieving; give an overview of funeral options (e.g., burial and cremation); and discuss the various legal issues involved at the end of life.

[Apply</a> to Be an About.com Guide - Apply for freelance writer jobs](<a href=“Dotdash Meredith - America's Largest Digital & Print Publisher”>Dotdash Meredith - America's Largest Digital & Print Publisher)

I am currently a gifted facilitator, and while I having a teaching degree, I worked for 8 years in a private school that didn’t require one. You might also consider looking into the private school system, which doesn’t usually require a teaching license but will often hire based on a college degree in the subject to be taught, as well as job/life experiences that will contribute to the position.

And, for what it’s worth, I agree with other posters that a psychology degree is likely a dead end for someone in your position, especially if it means taking on ANY debt whatsoever - when I was in college, it was common knowledge that the psych graduates could look forward for sacking groceries at Wal-Mart upon graduation! :-)

Whatever you decide - best of luck.

2collegewego · May 9, 2012, 2:42am

I was also thinking that, with your excellent writing skills, you may be able to earn some money as a writing tutor.

thumper1 · May 9, 2012, 9:06am

I just read the UC Ash degree and certificate program offerings. There are a number of them that can be completed in one to two years. NOW…let’s get to the financial aid question. This college does not meet the full need of all accepted students. I would urge the OP to read the response from Kelsmom upstream that clearly states that his financial aid for any other undergrad degree program will be significantly limited. The money his wife gets could very well be limited to the Pell grant and Stafford loans. These look like they will cover HER tuition/fees/books, but that is it. This will not pay for his schooling or for rent, utilities, a car, food, etc.

RE the grad school idea…grad school funding is merit based and is based on the strength of the applicants admissions information, and the school’s desire to have you as part of their program. Most programs in the social sciences and humanities are not fully funded…so again, covering both college costs and living expenses for two people could be very problematic. Add to this that this couple would need to either both get terrific grant money at tha same school…or two schools in close proximity. Otherwise they would need to maintain two households.

Again, I would suggest to anyone in this situation…go and talk to the folks at the college. See if there is any funding for nontraditional students like you.

But I am going to caution…attending college is not a money making event. The aid you receive will first and foremost pay for college costs and is usually disbursed directly to the colleges. IF there is remaining money, then yes, you would get it but not up front.

Another thing…from the sound of the OP, this is an immediate issue. That being the case, the only guaranteed funding would be a Pell for the wife, and Stafford loans for her too. At this time, there is likely precious little institutional money left. Perhaps Ohio has something in their coffers…this would likely be for the wife only.

I agree with others…you need to get yourselves on your feet somehow. I don’t think viewing attending college as an income producing plan is a good one.

GTalum · May 9, 2012, 9:19am

David, I haven’t read this whole thread and I’m sorry for your tough circumstances. It is clear that you are intelligent and caring. I would reiterate that social work or nursing are great options for you and use your experience and skill sets. I would think about starting with a nursing assistant certification that can be done in about 9 months at relatively a low cost. You have experience with such work. That will help you start earning money. Decide then if you want to move toward a degree in social work, nursing, another service profession, or grad school. I know someone who is doing quite well with her NA degree and a elder care business she started herself.

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