Seven Sisters vs State School

College Search & Lists
1

Not sure where to post this, but I’m in extreme need of advice. Sorry for long post. I’m between four schools–Smith, Mount Holyoke, Bryn Mawr, and Indiana University. I know IU seems out of place, but a solid foreign languages program is very important to me, hence the addition. However, I am not a huge fan of the campus–it’s larger than my town and slightly terrifying.

What I want to study: foreign languages as mentioned (Arabic and French most important; I’ve already studied Arabic for a couple years though through dual enrollment), government/poly sci, computer science, or comparative literature/english with comp lit minor, anthropology, etc.

$$$–IU is the cheapest, but Smith comes second (by only $500 per year). The thing is, I’m on merit for IU and the others are entirely grant, so I’m not sure how much it’ll fluctuate each year. Moho is the most expensive (~5k more than IU) which is disappointing because it had been my first choice school. My parents are telling me that I shouldn’t consider costs, but I know finances are important to them and am trying to not be a burden.

Campus culture–I’ve heard horror stories of Smith being extremely left-wing and intolerant of other’s views, but then I’ve also heard that it’s just an exaggeration and not that bad. I personally am liberal, but I believe it’s important to have a college where students aren’t afraid to share their opinions, even if they’re in the minority. Besides, how can you learn to argue your point if everyone around you agrees all the time? Does anyone know if Smith is really so intolerant? Because I’m on the Facebook pages, and honestly the Holyoke students seem to be the most “aggressive” and argumentative. Not that it’s an accurate representation of the entire student body, but I was surprised at the level of aggression, especially considering that I’d always heard that Holyoke was the more laid-back sister.

Location–Bryn Mawr’s location is literally perfect. Self-contained, tight-knight community, but a large city easily accessible! My worries about Bryn Mawr is that it’s too small–not size, lol, I was homeschooled so I come from a “school” of three–but in terms of class availability. Any comments?

Other important things–I want a strong dance program, ESPECIALLY with ballet. I’ve a Balanchine-trained dancer, and I want to continue that in college. Smith and Moho both look fab, but I’m unsure about Bryn Mawr. I don’t care about sports and really am more music/arts oriented. I have ZERO interest in partying, alcohol, or drugs (horrific family experience. I don’t care if other people do, but I don’t want that to be a prevailing culture or commonly happen.) I’m a nerd girl who likes to study, play with cats, watch Netflix with friends and make snide commentary, basically.

Visit–over the summer I visited BMC and MHC, and I liked both (but I loved MHC the most). I know it was just summer, so i’m going to visit all Smith, Bryn Mawr, and Mount Holyoke for their accepted student days. But by then, I’ll only have a couple weeks to decide, so I’m trying to get a good feel now.

If any of y’all actually read this, props and I’m impressed. Any and all advice welcome. Thanks!

2

Oh, and in case anyone’s wondering, I have read literally all of the threads on each one of these schools. Multiple times. Still have no idea.

3

  1. You can ask each of these places about what your financial aid package is likely to look like in future years given expected changes in your family’s situation. It really, truly, is OK to do that.

  2. You can ask the Dance departments (or Phys Ed departments if there is no Dance department) about where you would need to go to keep up your ballet classes. Ask about nearby off-campus options as well as the on-campus ones. You will need to include an extra budget for classes if you need to take them off-campus.

  3. “I’m a nerd girl who likes to study, play with cats, watch Netflix with friends and make snide commentary, basically.” sounds like just about all the BMC alumnae I know, so I would expect you could do fine at Smith or MHC as well.

4

@happymomof1 thank you! I wasn’t sure how to approach the financial aid thing–I guess I just didn’t want to come off as ungrateful. Do you think it would be ok to ask Holyoke if they could compare their package with Smith/Bryn Mawr (since they’re pretty comparable) or just not?
Yeah, I realized as I was typing that sentence out that I sounded exactly like the stereotypical Bryn Mawr student…I’m still worried about Smith’s environment though, especially with a new thread on this site sharing anecdotes about Smith being super aggressive and intolerant towards any straight and non-ultra-ultra-liberal types. Do you know anything about Smith? I’ve tried to research it, but I live in the Midwest and hadn’t even heard of it a year ago, so my info source is rather limited…

5

Hard to knock Indiana University. Great undergraduate education. Great college town. Large universities can offer multiple options for a person’s Student Life (out of the classroom) interests.

6

@LakeWashington I didn’t expect to be so conflicted about IU, honestly. But like I said, it’s bigger than my hometown haha, and I always hear that it’s party central, which I definitely do not want. But their foreign languages program is extremely tempting.

7

Dozens of colleges can appear to be “party central” on occasion. Educators and professionals consider Indiana U to be an elite public university.

8

Yes, it is OK to contact the financial aid offices and ask for their best estimates for future years. Especially if there is the chance that anything would change (younger sibling starting college, parent retiring, etc.) They get this kind of question all the time.

I’ve only known one Smithie, and that was years ago in grad school. She was rather quiet and serious, but I think that was just her temperament rather than a result of the Smith experience.

9

Can you continue ballet at IU?

Though you seem to fit one of the LACs better.

Really inquire about the dance programs.

BTW, I believe all those LACs are part of consortiums, so you could take advanced language classes through them.

Bryn Mawr is very close to Haverford and you can take the train to UPenn.

Smith and Mount Holyoke are a few miles from each other and the other schools in their consortium (don’t know how easy it is to move between the campuses).

10

Ballet is decent at MoHo, better than the other schools in the 5 college consortium and they have a newish beautiful studio. Look through the course catalogs at the different schools and see what is offered, how often, which levels, and if you need permission to take them…Moho was the only one that could come close (and even then not completely approximating) to what you would be used to if you are already dancing in a pre-professional program.

11

Your selection shows you’re probably a better fit at a LAC and a women’s college. IU is good for languages, but (knowing Smith, MoHo, IU, and BMC in that area) the quality is nowhere near what you’d find at the women’s colleges for French, and the post-graduation opportunities just aren’t comparable.
You do sound like the ideal Bryn Mawr student, but most of all, Bryn Mawr has a TERRIFIC French major (I mean, really up there in variety of offerings, level, quality of teaching) and you can cross register with Haverford, even take classes at Penn (especially if you want to focus on French speakng Africa, Penn offers a variety of African languages that are rarely taught, and if you’re thinking of going into academia, that’s the kind of specialty and pedigree that will really help you.)
Ask about dance opportunities.
I think it’ll come down to French vs. dance, and city vs. college town. Cost may be the deal breaker:
Email both MoHo and BMC about your Smith offer, see if they can reassess your need in light of Smith’s assessment.

12

To address a couple of things from previous posts…

Smith and Mount Holyoke (and the other colleges in the 5-college consortium) have a free bus connecting all the schools and towns of Northampton and Amherst. It is easy to get around.

Yes, ask MHC to reassess your FA award in light of the Smith offer. Also ask them about how your award may vary in other years. If it’s all need-based grants, it will only vary if your family’s financial situation changes. The proportion of your and your parent’s income and assets that you are expected to pay will remain the same.

Your description of yourself as “nerd girl who likes to study, play with cats, watch Netflix with friends and make snide commentary” pretty much describes my D and her friends at MHC. If you’d like to meet them when you visit, PM me for her contact info. She loves it there.

13

I peeked at Bryn Mawr http://www.brynmawr.edu/dance/courses/schedule.html#pe_descriptions

It appears most if not all advanced classes are “not offered” for 2015-16??? WTH? Are they shutting it down?

I guess you should look and see what is available in the community or through the other schools in their consortium if you go there, and, if you’re still interested in MoHo, look and see how the language classes in the consortium can supplement what they have, as well as performance opportunities within the 5 college consortium.

I’m voting for MoHo. https://www.fivecolleges.edu/dance

and https://www.fivecolleges.edu/languages

14

@literallyleslie - I think you are a good fit for Bryn Mawr. With the Bi-Co with Haverford, and the Quaker Consortium adding UPenn and Swarthmore, you should have no problem finding all the courses you need. Also, there is typically little problem registering for the courses you want. If you don’t get in during the lottery process, you can typically get into a course by attending classes during the “shopping period” and speaking to the professor. The shopping period is a great perk - not sure how many colleges offer it but its a real plus.

Regarding dance classes that @redpoodles mentioned above, I checked the Tri-College Course Guide and there are dance options for Fall 2015 including advanced ballet. Not sure why that website page referenced states otherwise but worth asking. In the department field, search under “Dance -Arts Program” for Bryn Mawr. Under “DAnce”, you can see Swarthmore’s offerings. Bryn Mawr also offers several performing ensembles.

http://www.trico.haverford.edu/cgi-bin/courseguide/cgi-bin/search.cgi

15

Oh my goodness, I wasn’t expecting so many helpful replies! Thank you so much, everyone!
@PurpleTitan IU offers a very limited ballet offering for non-majors. I think there’s 1 or 2 classes I could take and repeat for credit, plus a ballet ensemble, but that’s really it…

@redpoodles ummm…I’m kind of worried now about those dance courses! I’d only seen the offerings for this previous year, and it’s weird that they’re cutting down so much on next year. Hopefully you can dance for PE credit, because I’d certainly fail any other PE classes, haha. I’ve looked into Holyoke’s dance program and I think it offers quite a lot for being a non-conservatory school. I know they’ve performed at least one of Balanchine’s works, and I was impressed that such a small school got permission to do that! I’ve not really been able to find substantial info online about choreographers and pieces performed in recent years, though.

@staceyneil thank you so much! also, I’m a “new member” but I’ve been reading threads on the different colleges on here for a year or so now, and your posts about Moho have been some of the most helpful on here. It really helps to balance out the plentiful Smith commenters, haha. In terms of fin aid, well, I posted on the Facebook page asking if the college would re-evaluate in light of Smith’s offer, and a couple of current students commented that “Holyoke just isn’t as rich as Smith.” Should I still ask them to reevaluate? because their comments make me a bit nervous to, I don’t know.

16

@MYOS1634‌ Academia is my dream career field, though the job prospects are daunting to say the least. With my Arabic experience (tbh I haven’t even studied French yet) I’m looking to specialize in the Moroccan, Northern Africa areas. But Penn would be great for Swahili or Zulu, which actually wouldn’t be a bad idea for a third language. I’ve heard that Bryn Mawr’s program especially is hard to beat for French. But when I look at their course offerings/major requirements I only saw two, two and a half years of language instruction and then the rest was a few literature courses. Whereas IU had four years of language, conversation, translation classes as well as literature. I mean, this is probably a case of “quality over quantity” but I don’t know for sure. I mean I’ve seen Smith and they have more classes and also one where you Skype with French students in Paris, but at the same time Bryn Mawr’s program is more highly regarded so it shouldn’t be a problem plus I like Bryn Mawr more…so sorry I’m rambling! sigh I think you’re right about having to choose–and really I should prioritize a better academic program over a better ballet program…

@doschicos oh, well I’ll definitely have to ask about the dance classes when I visit. I am a bit disappointed that there isn’t even a class entirely dedicated to pointe work at Bryn Mawr, though. I suppose Swarthmore is an option, but I’ve looked at the van schedules and it seems inconvenient. Are you quite familiar with Bryn Mawr? You seem to know a lot about it. I’m not concerned with taking classes at Haverford, but I’m a bit uneasy about Swarthmore and Penn–for one, I’ve heard that Penn is very difficult about other students registering for classes. Idk, maybe that’s just for people who want to take Wharton courses. really the only Penn classes I’m interested in are the higher-level or uncommon languages and possibly the more advanced electives for whatever major I choose. But I know registering at UMass is much easier, and I’d hate to commit to a school counting on the fact that I can take courses I need/want at another institution, only to find out that it’s much harder to than advertised…

17

There’s no reason not to ask MHC to reevaluate, right? You have nothing to lose. The worst that can happen is that they say “no”.

18

@literallyleslie - I strongly recommend you reach out to the heads of the dance departments at all schools. If you are going to visits, make an appointment to meet them. If you can’t visit, definitely email or call. I’m sure whoever is in charge at each school will be happy to answer your questions.

Regarding the Quaker consortium, yes, it is much easier to take classes at Haverford than Swarthmore or UPenn given the distance and scheduling. At UPenn, it is designed more with what you have in mind, the more advanced classes. Students who do it arrange their schedules to accommodate the time. Often, when you get into the more advanced classes they are only once or twice a week which can make scheduling easier.

As far as language classes, use the link for the course guide above to look at Haverford as well as Bryn Mawr french classes. I am no expert, but as far as I know, once you get past intermediate level classes in languages, the schools do gear more towards literature, history, film type seminar classes conducted in the language of choice. The assumption being, I guess, that you have a solid grasp on vocab and grammar and its then best to increase fluency through the reading of primary texts and engaged classroom discussion. Again, chat with department heads to get an idea of how the majors at your choices will meet your needs.

19

Well, it’s because the early program at BMC is very intense. They cover in two semesters what students at IU cover in 3, the IU’s 4th and 5th is covered in one, so that you start in “junior” level classes at IU what you can start as a sophomore at BMC. (I’d advise starting on your own before you start there - but it gets you to a high level quickly).
In terms of grad programs, only literature/civiliation courses “count”, so the faster you get rid of “language” classes, the better. BMC has extensive literature and civilisation offerings pertaining both to France and to the French speaking world. Adding the Penn opportunities and your knowledge of Arabic c(which could be useful for the Middle eastern studies program (http://www.brynmawr.edu/mideast/index.shtml) ). You’d find a similar high level of classes at MHC, but French at BMC is in a class of its own.

As for Financial aid offer: no risk in asking for a reassessment in light of Smith’s assessment.

20

@staceyneil @doschicos thank you! I’ll talk with the appropriate people when I visit in a couple weeks and see what they say :slight_smile: