As I interpret it, it was not an official military program, but Cal had a lot of resources at his disposal. Here’s the conversation between Dinah and Ivy after Cal drops some big hints about his plans (p. 177):
And then later, at the end of the novel (p. 857), Arjun tells Ty (discussing the photos Cal sent Ivy): “We know all about the Cloud Ark program because it’s where we came from. It is our history. We have all of the records in our archives. Well, what Cal was hinting at, with these photos, is that there was another program, perhaps as large, that we never heard about.”
I think there is such variability in dogs not only because of breeding, but because dogs’ genetic makeup is different in certain ways from that of, say, cats – or humans. It’s called genomic plasticity, I believe.
I can’t for the life of me find a good link to an explanation of this, but I’m sure I’ve read about it.
Thanks, Mary. I was looking it up. I must have been tired when I read pg. 857. I always thought Cal and his crew had gone underwater on their own. I was wondering how they had enough people to repopulate the world. Their story would be interesting.
I figure military because of a discussion found in the Epilogue. It starts by suggesting that Cal’s selfies had a purpose:
The discussion actually starts on page 855 (Epilogue) and continues beyond what I included here. I assume military behind it all, since Cal is military. I doubt Cal could pull off another program on his own. Ivy may have taken his hints and not carried them to the legit conclusion - or not said aloud what she suspects.
^ That would make sense. I wonder how many other countries were secretly scrambling to find ways to save their own. There couldn’t have been too many nations capable of such a project.
Oh the ur-dog is the original domesticated animal that came from wolves. (Ur as a prefix meaning original or earliest.) There seems to be some new thoughts about how long ago that was, (130,000 years ago as opposed to 12,000). I suspect the original dogs probably looked a lot like wolves. I think the serious breeding for hunting traits and then later cuteness happened much later. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/library/01/5/l_015_02.html
I always assumed that the submarine project was official but super top secret - and yes I think it likely it was an Americans only program. Why put all your eggs in one basket?
If I’m not mistaken, in many species (like humans), fetuses that are too different from the parents simply fail to survive. However, this doesn’t necessarily happen with dogs.
That’s why you couldn’t breed something like the Pingers the same way you could breed something like a Chihuahua.
That’s how I felt, too. It seemed like a giant missed opportunity.
I can’t figure out what made the Eves think that maintaining seven distinct races was a good idea. What bothers me is that I feel like it stemmed more from spite or competitiveness than from a unified vision for a better, wiser, kinder future. The stereotyping of each race and the pigeonholing of people into certain jobs reeks of “Gattaca” to me. Seems like there would be a lot of simmering resentment. (For those unfamiliar with the movie: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gattaca)
Also, I need a little help understanding something: The first generation was all girls, after which Moira managed to synthesize the Y chromosome, allowing boys to be born. As soon as you have both males and females, the practice of parthenogenesis takes a backseat to the good old-fashioned method of procreation. So how did the next generation manage to keep the racial lines “pure” without incest? What am I missing?
I think Stephenson just thought it made for a better story and was easier to write about. The whole far-future section of the book was a bit on the cartoonish side.
Back to Cal and Ivy for a minute: Maybe Ivy understands Cal’s hints about the underwater program. In the last text she sends him - as the Hard Rain starts - she releases him from his vow to her. No reason to do so unless she understands that he has a chance to live.
I always assumed Ivy had figured it out even if she didn’t share the possiblity with others.
I’ll ask dh tonight if he has any thoughts about the genetics aspect. My guess (besides there being a bunch of handwaving) was that one, the genetic manipulation can continue on for a couple more generations, and two the manipulations made the babies more different that normal siblings would be.
Another good review - though less sciency: It’s a blog so just google “Neal Stephenson’s “Seveneves”: Thoughts on an Impact Event Patheos”
Loved this line: “I should say I don’t think Julia is meant to be an analog to Hillary Clinton at all: no one could accuse Clinton of being able to form a cult based on her charisma.” and also what I’ve been meaning to get back to my idea that there are other “agents” in the book besides the one that blows up the moon. JBF acts as an agent once she gets up into space. Her actions are what allow Aida to become a problem. (And how the heck did the selection process include her anyway?)
^^^ I think you’re right about JBF acting as an agent. I sort of considered it when I wondered about how things might have been different had Markus lived. But I think you’re right when you say that her actions allow Aida to become a problem. Had JBF not been there …
I wonder about Aida and the selection process also. She definitely has the intelligence and the will; she just masks the crazy well. Early on, Doob realizes that not all chosen from the casting of lots will actually make it into space. He wonders about the intense competition/brutality this fact might inspire in those young people during training. Meeting Aida I can’t help but think of the bodies (maybe literal, maybe not) that she leaves in her wake as she strives to be chosen.
I see Sean Probst as an agent. The description at the start of the book (which mathmom referred to in post #87) says, “the agent acts. The patient is passive.” Sean fights against the accepted thinking among members of the Ark—his first words upon arrival are “This whole thing is bullsh*t” (p. 119). He is the one who openly speculates that the Cloud Ark is just a short-lived “opiate for the masses” and sets out on an expedition to bring back the ice that will be crucial for their long-term survival.
It has been suggested, by the way, that Sean Probst is a blend of Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos.
Re the name game, I’ve seen two different reviews mention Malala Yousafzai as the model for Camila. While that may be true in terms of Camila’s backstory (age, assassination attempt, activism on behalf of girls’ education, etc.), I don’t think it is true at all in terms of her personality. Camila is too easily led, shows questionable judgment and is the meekest of the group. And she becomes the Mother of a race of servants. Wouldn’t the real Malala have been appalled?
The narrator writes, re Camite servitude, “This was a considered choice, ratified by many centuries of practice” (p. 632). That sounds like Big Brother propaganda to me, to justify a slave race. In fact, sometimes I wondered if the mysterious, unexplained government in part 3, known as the Purpose, isn’t just another version of the Party from George Orwell’s 1984.
